Wanderingdragon wrote:I am truly at a loss on the subject of lineage. Genetically it means having the same bloodlines and genetic codes, so in martial arts, or LHBF, especially, that there are no known non Wu transmissions.
Wanderingdragon wrote:Wouldn't that mean that all LHBF should be essentially the same with nothing added or subtracted.
Wanderingdragon wrote:I am curious about this because in many of the "Public Forms" I see performed today, I notice many subtlties that are missing, granted much can be given to interpretation, but none should be lost in transmission.
kenneth fish wrote:I was in a very small town in the middle of nowhere, Hebei, for a bit about a week ago. The town, called 独流 duliu, is about an hour and change from Tianjin. Its very well known for tough martial artists, and a very complete kind of Tongbei, called Duliu Taizu Tongbeiquan 独流太祖通背拳。 (The Taizu is not the same as the Songtaizu - it is a local term referring to this kind of Tongbei) I was introduced to one of the top people in the area, and visited him and his martial arts family. The teacher is my age, and there were a couple of his elder classmates too - they also demonstrated a bit, and were spry and powerful in their 70's. Things took a turn for the unexpected late in the day - we were watching some films that they had made of the system, and some footage of other systems was on the disc as well - luhong Bashi, Bafa Quan, and Liuhe Quan, all native to the general area. I was very interested in what I saw - the BaFa Quan and the LiuHe Quan (not the Shaolin Temple Liuhe) had several very long forms - and they bore a very strong resemblance to major sections of LHBF - with very similar mechanics, but with much more visible force and exertion, like old style Lohan or Weito Shaolin. (There was also some Erlang Quan, but thats another story). So I asked about the Bafa Quan and the Liuhe Quan - and this was what I was told (which, btw, is consistent with both Wu Yihui's writings and the historical research done on LHBF by the local government) -"These are systems that have been practiced in this area for a long time - probably going back to late Ming or early Qing dynasty. They are well known here and throughout Hebei." "That teacher (indicating a gent on the CD) is the grandson of one of Wu Yihui's teachers." "Yes, we know about Wu Yihui and LHBF. LHBF was developed by Wu Yihui and his teachers. It was developed from these two systems, and other things that Wu Yihui learned (Chinese: 六合八法 这个拳 是 由 六合拳和八法拳 这两个拳法变化出来的)
We don't know where the whole Daoist myth came from - its a myth. This was developed here (meaning rural Hebei), and Wu Yihui was the person who developed and spread it."
Which, as far as I am concerned, makes a hell of a lot more sense than the general LHBF mythology we are all familiar with - and it explains why the system seems to have changed over time while Wu Yihui was still alive and teaching - he was stll working on it and changing it throughout his life.
Chinese internal practices are a never-ending font of mystical thingies.
Overlord wrote:When Ken says to rock boat on Liuhebafa, if it’s not a claim what is a claim?
Tom wrote:Given your background, Trick, it seems like well-taught LHBF would contain much of interest for your study and training. Wu Yihui was by many accounts a highly skilled martial artist, a master synthesizer of principles and shenfa, and an excellent teacher of his evolving art.
If you have not seen it yet, http://www.liuhebafachuan.com is a very informative website put together by Paul Roberts, whose primary LHBF experience is in the Chen Yiren line of teaching out of Hong Kong.
What do Liuhebafa practitioners -- the ones with decades of experience and in-depth knowledge -- think regarding the origin of the art?
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