New private sub-section for internal power discussions

[snafu]

Perhaps the goal here is best served by a private, invitation-only email discussion list.

Everybody knows you never go full Qi-Jin. ... You went full Qi-Jin, man. Never go full Qi-Jin.

[Chris McKinley]

There have been some good points made pro and con so far, but I'm reserving judgment until I get a few questions clarified.

Who is in charge of moderating the forum?
Who is in charge of determining the criteria on which forum posters and posts will be judged? How will that be determined exactly? By what objective qualification(s) is that person's or those persons' opinions being judged to be superior in this regard to everyone else who posts on this forum?
Will the assertions, claims, declarations, critiques, points, etc. of those determining the discussion be themselves subjected to open questioning, review, critique, etc.? If not, why not?
What happens if/when there is legitimate disagreement between those already deemed worthy to post on the forum? Is the moderator(s)'s opinion to be considered to be correct by default? If so, that would necessarily set up a situation in which the moderator is infallible, and eventually the forum will no longer be a place of discussion but a place to simply read the pronouncement of one person or one set of persons, i.e., a blog. How will this be avoided?
Is the intended purpose of the forum to share specific information on internal power: what is is, how to get it, etc., or is it a mutual congratulations society for those who already have it? If the former, how would that be possible if those not already having it have been weeded out from admission in the first place?
If the forum is closed, what exactly are the objective criteria that will be used in determining invitation status?
If the forum is not closed, to what level of participation will others be allowed?

Such a forum could be a very good thing or a very bad thing depending upon the answers to these questions. For now, I'll just sit tight and see how it progresses.

[Wanderingdragon]

The only person that should be allowed to initiate such an elite group, should be the one that can definitively without any room for debate, explain what " INTERNAL " is, in specific regard to Martial Art, transcending all style, and cultural, ramification.

[river rider]

I like the squabbling between the IP and non-IP, as well as the attempts to define IP. I don't like that it's gotten so dead-ended lately. I want stuff that makes me think, that puts me in danger of having to change my mind...

If we were to create another category on this forum, I would suggest Professional, which might address some of the stated reasons for the IP sub-section... as well as giving us all something else to argue about.

FWIW... and HTFU

[Wanderingdragon]

It's really weird, whenever I do a search for rumsoaked fist, I find "Rumsoakedfist internal martial arts forum"

[lazyboxer]

While I think I agree with the general sentiment of the proposal, I am curious who gets to pass out invites . . .

Implicit in the proposal is the idea that someone here has an opinion that trumps everyone else on what is or is not legitimate discussion. For example, regarding:

1. Don't have any
2. Have no idea what it is
3. Think it is bullshit
4. Think it is equal to good golfing or any good athlete

1. Don't know if I do or not. I do not accept the proposal that not knowing means I do not have it. The problem here is that just making the claim either way begs the question: Do I even understand what "it" is in the mind of the person asking?

2. Similar to number 1. Who is there that I would accept as an absolute authority on this question?

3. Ok. That's clear enough. I can agree with this one.

4. This one is not as difficult to address as the first 2 but it still gets back to presupposing there is an absolute authority on the subject. Even if I personally do not think they are the same...this presupposes that this is a settled issue. It may be settled for certain people but it's not like there's a holy scrip somewhere spelling it out.

Well...

Addressing your responses to Dan's four points:


1. If there is an agreed operational definition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operational_definition available, this should be knowable.

2. See (1). The appeal to higher authority is a non-starter in any empirical enquiry. Why did you choose your teacher?

3. What are these people doing here anyway?

4. This is a toughie. Dan, are you up to speed with what's currently happening in cutting-edge sports biodynamics research? A lot of the stuff I'm now reading sounds as if it could have come straight out of very high level quanpu, may well be directly applicable to IMA training, and could not be further from the simplistic olde-worlde "A good big 'un will always beat a good little 'un" mindset of some of the posters here who think they know but self-evidently don't.

Why has no one said it?

Elitist. Utterly elitist.

All societies possibly excepting hunter-gatherers have their elites, without whom they cease to function. If you mean snobbish, I don't think it has to be.

What happens in this private sub-section? Is it a place, where you get people to agree with you, otherwise there out?
Is agreeing and having an 80% match with your opinion the same as having internal power?

Of course not. It should be a place where we can meet to discuss, learn and share. There are enough informed and objective people here to keep things on track, all of whom bring their own unique perspectives.

If I can't explain something clearly to someone, I should be prepared to assume I don't understand it in sufficient depth to do so. A brilliant theoretical physicist friend once explained some very abstruse cosmological theories to me by using well chosen metaphors. Even though I couldn't understand the maths of it, I still caught his meaning.

Personally I think the "IP-only sub forum" will pretty soon go down in flames due to the egos of the people involved, but hey, I'm willing to give it a go.

That's why we need you to run it, Graham.

[GrahamB]

Lol! My first act would be to ban the lot of you

[lazyboxer]

Lol! My first act would be to ban the lot of you

touché!

[GrahamB]

I vote for John Wang to moderate the new internal forum - where is he anyway?

[everything]

interested in invite. i likely can't make one of dan's seminars any time soon but that subset of people is probably who should be in such a forum, at least for starters.

[jonathan.bluestein]

Why has no one said it?

Elitist. Utterly elitist.


Why not just restrict the general discussion to internal martial arts, internal power and training for same and leave out Wing Chun, kettlebells, good shoes for taiji and - what's that other thing that comes up all the time? - oh yeah, yoga.

I agree.

The Interwebz is great because stuff is free. We learn by sharing. Historically, secrets mainly served to destroy martial arts, not promote them.

While I would very much like to be a part of such forum as I value knowledge, I don't think it's necessary.

Also consider that people that disliked the discussions in this particular forum found their way out themselves after a while, so...

[Bodywork]

interested in invite. i likely can't make one of dan's seminars any time soon but that subset of people is probably who should be in such a forum, at least for starters.

The big mistake is that because I was the one spearheading the complaint everyone is making it about me.
Fellas....I came here years ago to read and see what various people had to say abut their Iinternal training...not yak about mine!!

You're just plain missing the point guys and this resource...just like the skills, are passing many of you buy. Many of you don't even know it, and others think you are already have it...till you finally meet people who do. Then you have to start over. You have...scratch that...had...people here worth listening to on this subject. Sorry but most of you who write often just don't know what your talking about and your opinions on internal power are not worth the time it takes you to write them. I am sure you are wonderful men, decent martial artists and all that. I would bet some of you are pretty damn good fighters. So good on you, but I am not interested in external methods to fight, nor do I use them. As Ellis once said to me, "I wouldn't cross the stree to learn another technique"..that was not why or how he and I met and it was not why I came here either.
In your rush to defend you keep making it about me..It was always about you and for you...for us..that I complained. You had some great writing here in the past, apparently they grew as frustrated with the recent trend of cutting up internals and the internals being missrepresented either by muscle head pretenders or wimpy ner-do-wells who can't fight for shit and they left.
Either way I am obviously not interested in any of that but it is your forum All I see you doing is making the same decisions and choices that essentially caused the Japanese and Chinese to close the door to you in the first place. And you are cock sure of yourselves in the process. Sadly your are not even cognizant enough to review what people are saying right in front of you that can solve many of your own arguments. You can develop internal power as a stand alone body conditioning outside of all arts, that is super soft, instantly feels different, has bone breaking power AND totallly kicks ass in modern fighting and weapons. Many, oh hell I'd bet most of you, will never know.
Dan

[Wanderingdragon]

As the great Fats Waller was know to say "One never knows do one". As I said on another thread "you dont understand esoterica untyou understand esoterica ". I personally don't need a "Private sub-section to hear more words of enlightenment"

[GrahamB]

Jesus.

[Wanderingdragon]

Internal.