New private sub-section for internal power discussions

[snafu]

If they are unsure, they want everyone else to be unsure so they can...talk it through. All of these western based forums have not changed one freaking thing about attaining power with internals. Not one. The Asians knew what they were talking about.

Not directed at you necessarily Dan but at this whole idea.

Is there the possibility that these forums, and forums like this are NOT for gaining internal power, not for changing anything about gaining IP, not for justifying our individual positions on ourselves, not for gaining external strength fitness or ability either. But simply for fun?

Why cant a discussion be for fun and enjoyment of the subject matter? When you look at it like that ... everyone discussing for the enjoyment of discussion of their favorite topic ... even if they are wrong ... its actually ok!!

Maybe i am being too Hippy about it? I dont know but ... there is one thing that is an absolute fact that i hope and really believe everyone here KNOWS ... and that is posting on a forum is NOT training. It is not even close to training ... it may give you hints, tips and thoughts ... but to train you have to train. So ultimately talking about it is just fine ... cause it changes nothing ... but thats ok!

Just sayin.

Chris

This is a case where you have knowledgeable people who have already left, and a more who are ready to call it quits, because of that current anything-goes directon where we are drowning out valuable opinions with a bunch of senseless noise. So, maybe you don't notice their absence or drowned out signal because they've been replaced by prolific posters who sound like they know what they're talking about - but it's easy to sound like you know what you're talking about on the intertubes.

Chances are the people who jettison off will just start their own thing if RSF won't do it, or just swear off forums entirely. Do we really want these people to go away? What little you could hope to have learned from reading the forums, they provided it. I used to read RSF and before that EF a lot, but the last couple years I just stopped reading, because most of the discussions are inane and garbled and misinformed. I'd rather have the people who can provide real signal here where they can benefit us, at least to read the information they can dispense, but then again, it's not like I've been doing much reading of RSF lately anyway. It's not just driving away the people who know what they're talking about, it's driving away people, like me, who just want to actually read anything of substance at all, and can't seem to find any.

It doesn't hurt to try out the idea of a read-only forum in some form and see what happens. If it causes mass hysteria, cats and dogs living together, etc. etc., then, well, you can always can it and move along as if it never existed, never happened, nothing to see.

[Iskendar]

It doesn't hurt to try out the idea of a read-only forum in some form and see what happens. If it causes mass hysteria, cats and dogs living together, etc. etc., then, well, you can always can it and move along as if it never existed, never happened, nothing to see.

Hmm, read-only forum, what a novel idea! Let's give it a catchy new name...how about...*blog*?

All jokes set aside, you could add invite-only or GOO-only blogs to RSF. Bloggers can moderate comments any way the see fit, and the forums continue to function like before. I think aikiweb has something like this. Then again, so did EF, and I seem to recall that went up in flames (ironically, I seem to recall a different kind of IP discussion on that one ) even before the forum self-destructed... Still, doesn't mean it cannot work.

[Bodywork]

Dan,

Well if you can read someone telling you to disconnect your body and move from your shoulders separately from your legs and it DOESN"T send up red flags in your head...I have nothing further to say.

It's not a matter of whether it's something that I personally espouse or prefer. It's a matter of a different approach that you are simply, by your own admission, unfamiliar with and yet felt justified in dismissing wholesale and out-of-hand. If that is the kind of thing one can expect out of the new sub-forum, it's not exactly encouraging.

It's okay that you don't get it and that it's all just talking points that need to be investigated according to you.

LOL, son. There's nothing that you personally are capable of bringing up that I won't get, though I don't have the same confidence about you. Try again. You'll also notice that I didn't state that "it's all just talking points that need to be investigated". That's just more of your bullshit way of ignoring people's actual statements and judging them on words you put in their mouths. Weak ass shit as far as I'm concerned. I'm just getting to the point that you don't need to be so dismissive about something you don't know jack shit about, especially if you're in the middle of trying to sell the idea that we need to have a forum that's invite-only. You say you want to hear about other people's views on internal power and yet your behavior here is the exact opposite.

Part of the problem here is that you are setting yourself up as the arbiter of what constitutes sufficient knowledge of internal power to be able to exclude all those that don't have the same level of knowledge, and yet.....we have yet to see anything from you that would provide sufficient evidence that you yourself deserve to receive such an invite. Kinda ironic, huh? I'm sure we'll hear more about how you've met with this one, or touched hands with that one, etc., etc., which is all nice and such. But that's not anything that many of us couldn't claim. It's also not anything that frankly anybody couldn't claim if they merely wanted to.

I'm not sold on you or your competency to arbitrate or moderate such an exclusive sub-forum. You're too unstable, paranoid and even occasionally dishonest (as you just were with me in this very exchange) in conversation when people disagree with you. Even if you have real skills, you're just not qualified to manage something of that nature IMO.

Well Chris
Once again we see that lurking just beneath your surface-if you are challenged about what you know, is an anger and you respond with personal insults.

There's nothing that you personally are capable of bringing up that I won't get...

I've never felt a need like that... to be all things to all men. I think it's a losing a bet. I'm comfortable knowing there are things I don't know, but also knowing the limits of who I am speaking with on subject I do, without feeling the need to insult them personally.
Not a very good showing Chris. Over the top responses like this don't exactly make your case for calling me unstable.
Dan
P.S. I was not asking to arbitrate or moderate. There are or were people here who could. You seem to lose focus in discussions and keep zeroing in on attacking me personally. It doesn't help forward healthy debate to attack people you don't know over a singular topic. We all have lives bigger than debating budo. Get a grip.

[middleway]

All jokes set aside, you could add invite-only or GOO-only blogs to RSF. Bloggers can moderate comments any way the see fit, and the forums continue to function like before.

Great idea! Then members can subscribe to individual users blogs they are interested in or not!

i like it lets do that

Cheers

[klonk]

All jokes set aside, you could add invite-only or GOO-only blogs to RSF. Bloggers can moderate comments any way the see fit, and the forums continue to function like before.

Great idea! Then members can subscribe to individual users blogs they are interested in or not!

i like it lets do that

Cheers

There are plenty of other places where you can put up a blog. Some are free: https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CH ... =free+blog Both Blogger and Wordpress are easy to use.

And then, if you like, you can link your blog posts here so people can look at them, as, indeed, some already do. This approach adds no effort and expense to RSF's operations.

I think there's some wheel reinvention going on here. If you want a discussion where only invited participants can contribute and see the contents, a private discussion, that's a mail list application. If you want only invited contributors, but want everyone to see it, that's a blog.

[Bodywork]

if they are unsure, they want everyone else to be unsure so they can...talk it through. All of these western based forums have not changed one freaking thing about attaining power with internals. Not one. The Asians knew what they were talking about.
Not directed at you necessarily Dan but at this whole idea.

Is there the possibility that these forums, and forums like this are NOT for gaining internal power, not for changing anything about gaining IP, not for justifying our individual positions on ourselves, not for gaining external strength fitness or ability either. But simply for fun?

Why cant a discussion be for fun and enjoyment of the subject matter? When you look at it like that ... everyone discussing for the enjoyment of discussion of their favorite topic ... even if they are wrong ... its actually ok!!

Maybe i am being too Hippy about it? I dont know but ... there is one thing that is an absolute fact that i hope and really believe everyone here KNOWS ... and that is posting on a forum is NOT training. It is not even close to training ... it may give you hints, tips and thoughts ... but to train you have to train. So ultimately talking about it is just fine ... cause it changes nothing ... but thats ok!

Just sayin.

Chris

Sure Chris
Have fun, but if it happens that lets say you were on a shooting forum you find out that some of the hints you got on expert sniping were actually from a teenager shooting cans and you discovered that you had been a forum with five active duty snipers who didn't post anything becase they were sck and tired of arguing with that kid...blame your own point of view.

This is a case where you have knowledgeable people who have already left, and a more who are ready to call it quits, because of that current anything-goes directon where we are drowning out valuable opinions with a bunch of senseless noise. So, maybe you don't notice their absence or drowned out signal because they've been replaced by prolific posters who sound like they know what they're talking about - but it's easy to sound like you know what you're talking about on the intertubes.

Chances are the people who jettison off will just start their own thing if RSF won't do it, or just swear off forums entirely. Do we really want these people to go away? What little you could hope to have learned from reading the forums, they provided it. I used to read RSF and before that EF a lot, but the last couple years I just stopped reading, because most of the discussions are inane and garbled and misinformed. I'd rather have the people who can provide real signal here where they can benefit us, at least to read the information they can dispense, but then again, it's not like I've been doing much reading of RSF lately anyway. It's not just driving away the people who know what they're talking about, it's driving away people, like me, who just want to actually read anything of substance at all, and can't seem to find any.

I was talking about this with some spec ops military guys I know. They have gone to some forums and when it came to things related to their work it doesn't take them long to discover people that are either overeaching or outright frauds...just by what they write. in all fields of knowledge there are a lots of very experienced and capable guys who just walk away when they see they will have to wade through reams reams of claptrap. I've often wondered what it is in people that drives to them to feel a need to pretend to know things they don't, and then get angry when called on it. Whether that foundational dishonesty or insecurity is pervasive in the rest of their lives.
Anyway, as you can see I agree with you. I would imagine it would take years to get those people to return and have any interest. This thread reveals why.

[AllanF]

All jokes set aside, you could add invite-only or GOO-only blogs to RSF. Bloggers can moderate comments any way the see fit, and the forums continue to function like before.

Great idea! Then members can subscribe to individual users blogs they are interested in or not!

i like it lets do that

Cheers

+1

[middleway]

but if it happens that lets say you were on a shooting forum you find out that some of the hints you got on expert sniping were actually from a teenager shooting cans and you discovered that you had been a forum with five active duty snipers who didn't post anything becase they were sck and tired of arguing with that kid...blame your own point of view.

But if i got hints that helped my sniping ... would it ultimately matter. Personally from my standpoint my shooting would improve so i dont give a shit who told me or what their credentials are. If they weren't going to help from my understanding i wouldn't even try them and just ignore the comments.

My point is this ... Why argue with that Kid in the first place ... why not go 'thanks' and move on or talk past him? Then it would more likely be him that leaves if no one will engage with him. Better tactic no?

I look at this forum and only even bother to read the threads where a certain few select people post. If there is a thread going on about something i know about and the people posting don't .. i don't get involved... i have nothing to offer if they are set in their view. Its really no skin off my nose if these people like to have their opinions ... even if they are incorrect in reality.

I've often wondered what it is in people that drives to them to feel a need to pretend to know things they don't, and then get angry when called on it. Whether that foundational dishonesty or insecurity is pervasive in the rest of their lives.

I wonder if its just that they are going on what their teachers told them and not what they have made up. I really think this is a very big part of the issue unfortunately Dan.

I really understand why you feel the way you feel. I just think there are other options to leaving or having a closed group ... if you Never engaged with a poster who didn't know what they were talking about and only quoted on those who do directly and responded to them directly ... this issue would vanish. But everyone else would get the benefit of the exchange! just a thought.

All the best.

[Bodywork]

Hi Chris
I didn't start the thread to resolve the problem but rather to reveal it.
As others have also noted...the discussions have gone down hill with many we wanted to talk with either leaving or shutting up. I just became the focal point of attack for bringing it up.
Dan

[bailewen]

Oh boy...

Kind of conflicted because I agree with Bodywork in terms of general sentiment but also agree 100% with McKinley on the particulars.

Dan,

I think you are being way to quick to judge with McKinley. You've only really been reading his posts for a pretty short while. I've been following his stuff for probably about 10 years now. He just doesn't really get personal with his posts. I've never seen it in nearly a decade on this forum. He tends to be pretty damn direct at times, just like you do. He also tends to be pedantic and comes off as a know it all who is overly sure of his opinions...just like many people are saying about yourself. I hate to say it but, even though I personally am of the opinion that you are every bit as good and knowledgeable as you claim, I can't find any fault at all with this comment of Chris's:

Part of the problem here is that you are setting yourself up as the arbiter of what constitutes sufficient knowledge of internal power to be able to exclude all those that don't have the same level of knowledge, and yet.....we have yet to see anything from you that would provide sufficient evidence that you yourself deserve to receive such an invite. Kinda ironic, huh? I'm sure we'll hear more about how you've met with this one, or touched hands with that one, etc., etc., which is all nice and such. But that's not anything that many of us couldn't claim. It's also not anything that frankly anybody couldn't claim if they merely wanted to.

That's not a personal attack. Other than the first sentence, it's an objective truth. As to that first sentence, that would be a subjective claim but it's one I agree with.

On another note, I really like the new attention this thread has brought to the subject of IP. Suddenly there's 3 new threads in the main forum with topics directly related to IMA and there's even good discussion going on in all of them.

[Bodywork]

Oh boy...Kind of conflicted because I agree with Bodywork in terms of general sentiment but also agree 100% with McKinley on the particulars.
Dan,
I think you are being way to quick to judge with McKinley. You've only really been reading his posts for a pretty short while. I've been following his stuff for probably about 10 years now. He just doesn't really get personal with his posts.

Interestingly you skipped this from Chris's post

Chris:
You're too unstable, paranoid and even occasionally dishonest (as you just were with me in this very exchange) in conversation when people disagree with you.

How is it that did you not catch that?

I've never seen it in nearly a decade on this forum. He tends to be pretty damn direct at times, just like you do.

This is one of several interactions I have had with this gentleman where he went off for no reason. The last one he deleted, self-admittedly stating he lost it. The post he deleted was incredibly ugly and discussed my personality traits and motives with very colorful language even calling into question the decision of those who train with me.
Look you can try to equate us as being the same in our discussions--it doesn't make it true. I don't do those things nor treat people that way. I talk about their skills and knowledge...they go nuts!

He also tends to be pedantic and comes off as a know it all who is overly sure of his opinions...just like many people are saying about yourself. I hate to say it but, even though I personally am of the opinion that you are every bit as good and knowledgeable as you claim, I can't find any fault at all with this comment of Chris's:

A know it all? Oh really?
Care to prove your case with quotes?
I have narrowed my participation here to internal strength and occasional MMA discussions and repeatedely acknowledge others...or disclude them by what they write. In this thread I specifically wanted to bring back others (meaning multiple people )with good information.
Any other arrows in your quiver to prove that I am talking about myself? This is like speaking to the wind. I keep talking about others who used to write here and it just goes right over the heads of those focused on me.

Part of the problem here is that you are setting yourself up as the arbiter of what constitutes sufficient knowledge of internal power to be able to exclude all those that don't have the same level of knowledge, and yet.....we have yet to see anything from you that would provide sufficient evidence that you yourself deserve to receive such an invite. Kinda ironic, huh? I'm sure we'll hear more about how you've met with this one, or touched hands with that one, etc., etc., which is all nice and such. But that's not anything that many of us couldn't claim. It's also not anything that frankly anybody couldn't claim if they merely wanted to.

That's not a personal attack. Other than the first sentence, it's an objective truth. As to that first sentence, that would be a subjective claim but it's one I agree with.

Fine by me
Disclude me and do the forum. It might help you guys. I don't need to take part.

On another note, I really like the new attention this thread has brought to the subject of IP. Suddenly there's 3 new threads in the main forum with topics directly related to IMA and there's even good discussion going on in all of them.

I haven't seen that yet but I am glad you find them beneficial. All I see is stuff like this perfectly demonstrating my point.
Dan

[Chris McKinley]

Dan,

Once again we see that lurking just beneath your surface-if you are challenged about what you know, is an anger and you respond with personal insults.

Nah, not at all. I don't mind a legitimate on-topic question about something I purport to know, but you issued no such question. I just don't like when punks come on and lie about me. I especially don't like it when they then try to hold me accountable for the lie they generated. I may be an opinionated ass, but I'm a fair opinionated ass. You won't catch me calling you to task for something I made up out of thin air, which you have done more than once with me, and have done repeatedly with multiple members of this forum.

I posted a series of extremely legitimate and on-topic questions regarding the possibility of your new sub-forum, and did so from a neutral perspective. That you completely ignored my questions and instead lied about me and insulted me.....well, that pretty much tells me all I need to know about your capability to handle such a forum. You simply don't have any. You can't even handle regular on-topic discussion in the existing forums, nevermind what you would do with moderating power in a closed-off clique.

I was not asking to arbitrate or moderate.

Oh, you're absolutely correct....you didn't ask.....you simply already took it upon yourself to begin without asking. Multiple comments about how many if not most of us are unqualified to even have a discussion on your new forum and how such folks should be excluded by means of an invite-only system already provide such arbitration. Did you really think you had slipped that by without us noticing?

You seem to lose focus in discussions and keep zeroing in on attacking me personally.

Revisionist history doesn't help your case, Dan. The fact is, as per usual, I started out completely on-topic by posting my as-yet-still-ignored questions regarding the creation of your forum. It was only when you lied and posted, and I quote (see how easy that is), "It's okay that you don't get it and that it's all just talking points that need to be investigated according to you", that I took personal issue with you. See, it's funny when folks can actually read the chronology of how things went down on an open forum. You ignored the on-topic and had to go personal and lie as well, then now have the audacity to claim that it is I that is zeroing in with ad hominems directed at you? Mildly humorous at best, delusionally pathetic at worst.

If you don't want to answer my questions because they are uncomfortable for you or for the purposes you intend for the sub-forum, I suppose that's understandable. They are a pretty good representation of critical thinking and answering them honestly would expose any intentions of creating a cult of personality echo chamber or blog that may exist. Strangely enough, though, answering them honestly also provides a really good opportunity for someone with good intentions instead to outline for the readers of RSF exactly how the new sub-forum might be fairly and equitably structured and administrated. You chose to pass up that opportunity, and that speaks volumes as to your intent with the project.

It's really kind of a shame, Dan, that if you really are as skilled as your fanboys claim and as your own dismissive mouthiness subsequently demands, that you aren't instead choosing to lead by example, provide as much good specific information as possible to those whom you might influence, and assist others to come out of the morass that modern IMA training has by and large become by actually contributing to the forum. Your signal-to-noise is almost nonexistent. You constantly rant about how horribly ignorant and unskilled all of us are, how we think we have something until we meet someone who really does, how impossible it is for you to even begin to describe even the most rudimentary aspects of internal training, then conveniently refer to folks coming to see you specifically. Has it honestly never occurred to you just how info-mercially that comes across? You don't provide anything of substance here, you jump down anyone's throat who displays even the slightest disagreement with anything you might say, you crank on about how we're all a bunch of ignorant plebes and that everything we have is pure shit so often that we can all predict your posts before you type them, how you yourself are so skilled that you have grown weary of having to put up with the rest of us, then you have the gall to claim that you're the one being unfairly attacked? Save it for late-night cable, man.

[middleway]

Hi Chris
I didn't start the thread to resolve the problem but rather to reveal it.
As others have also noted...the discussions have gone down hill with many we wanted to talk with either living or shutting up. I just became the focal point of attack for bringing it up.
Dan

Dan.
I aint attacking you mate. Just airing my thoughts. You can give me a smack when we meet

all the best
Chris

[Bodywork]

Hi Chris
I didn't start the thread to resolve the problem but rather to reveal it.
As others have also noted...the discussions have gone down hill with many we wanted to talk with either leaving or shutting up. I just became the focal point of attack for bringing it up.
Dan

Dan.
I aint attacking you mate. Just airing my thoughts. You can give me a smack when we meet

all the best
Chris

Smack? Why?
All of the points can be made without any hitting or fighting as you will see when we meet. Internal power speaks for itself and those who want to debate it's veracity fail in person...every time they try. It is that obvious. The good thing is that in person; it gets settled, people make friends, compare notes and life goes on. I can promise you we will laugh are asses off.
The only recourse the naysayers have is the internet, adolescent insults and personal attacks.
Dan

[Bodywork]

Dan,

Once again we see that lurking just beneath your surface-if you are challenged about what you know, is an anger and you respond with personal insults.

Nah, not at all. I don't mind a legitimate on-topic question about something I purport to know, but you issued no such question. I just don't like when punks come on and lie about me. I especially don't like it when they then try to hold me accountable for the lie they generated. I may be an opinionated ass, but I'm a fair opinionated ass. You won't catch me calling you to task for something I made up out of thin air, which you have done more than once with me, and have done repeatedly with multiple members of this forum.
I posted a series of extremely legitimate and on-topic questions regarding the possibility of your new sub-forum, and did so from a neutral perspective. That you completely ignored my questions and instead lied about me and insulted me.....well, that pretty much tells me all I need to know about your capability to handle such a forum. You simply don't have any. You can't even handle regular on-topic discussion in the existing forums, nevermind what you would do with moderating power in a closed-off clique.

I was not asking to arbitrate or moderate.

Oh, you're absolutely correct....you didn't ask.....you simply already took it upon yourself to begin without asking. Multiple comments about how many if not most of us are unqualified to even have a discussion on your new forum and how such folks should be excluded by means of an invite-only system already provide such arbitration. Did you really think you had slipped that by without us noticing?

You seem to lose focus in discussions and keep zeroing in on attacking me personally.

Revisionist history doesn't help your case, Dan. The fact is, as per usual, I started out completely on-topic by posting my as-yet-still-ignored questions regarding the creation of your forum. It was only when you lied and posted, and I quote (see how easy that is), "It's okay that you don't get it and that it's all just talking points that need to be investigated according to you", that I took personal issue with you. See, it's funny when folks can actually read the chronology of how things went down on an open forum. You ignored the on-topic and had to go personal and lie as well, then now have the audacity to claim that it is I that is zeroing in with ad hominems directed at you? Mildly humorous at best, delusionally pathetic at worst.
If you don't want to answer my questions because they are uncomfortable for you or for the purposes you intend for the sub-forum, I suppose that's understandable. They are a pretty good representation of critical thinking and answering them honestly would expose any intentions of creating a cult of personality echo chamber or blog that may exist. Strangely enough, though, answering them honestly also provides a really good opportunity for someone with good intentions instead to outline for the readers of RSF exactly how the new sub-forum might be fairly and equitably structured and administrated. You chose to pass up that opportunity, and that speaks volumes as to your intent with the project.

It's really kind of a shame, Dan, that if you really are as skilled as your fanboys claim and as your own dismissive mouthiness subsequently demands, that you aren't instead choosing to lead by example, provide as much good specific information as possible to those whom you might influence, and assist others to come out of the morass that modern IMA training has by and large become by actually contributing to the forum. Your signal-to-noise is almost nonexistent. You constantly rant about how horribly ignorant and unskilled all of us are, how we think we have something until we meet someone who really does, how impossible it is for you to even begin to describe even the most rudimentary aspects of internal training, then conveniently refer to folks coming to see you specifically. Has it honestly never occurred to you just how info-mercially that comes across? You don't provide anything of substance here, you jump down anyone's throat who displays even the slightest disagreement with anything you might say, you crank on about how we're all a bunch of ignorant plebes and that everything we have is pure shit so often that we can all predict your posts before you type them, how you yourself are so skilled that you have grown weary of having to put up with the rest of us, then you have the gall to claim that you're the one being unfairly attacked? Save it for late-night cable, man.

Thanks for continuing to make my points about you clear, Chris...even your insulting of people here because they chose train with me. I have made long detailed descriptions of IP and training here and elsewhere that illicited many lengthy private emails and dozens of meet ups.
I ignore your questions and refuse to interact with you because all of this...lies just beneath the surface of you.
Dan