New private sub-section for internal power discussions

[WingTsunChap]

Many, oh hell I'd bet most of you, will never know.

To be fair, as soon as you say 'most of you will never know', you are implying you do know... and therefore you are making this discussion about you.

You know and others don't and never will. Which would mean if the sub-forum actually happened, you might spend a lot of time in it talking to yourself Either way, I like some of your posts, so if this sub-forum indeed becomes invite only, let's hope who ever sets it up keeps it public to read. As a Wing Tsun practitioner, I am sure I'd never be invited in to such a forum, but it would be fun/interesting/maybe educational to read.

[Ralteria]

I, for one, would be very interested in seeing something like this. As to private, I could go either way on that. The pro's for "invitation only" are pretty obvious in that people are already vetted to a certain extent and are at least interested in the conversation at hand. Threads get bogged down in b/s a lot because everything here is open. People end up having to repeat themselves or re explain. It would at least make sure that people involved are on the same page, even if it's different translations of the same book. Obviously, having it public would attract more people willing to comment, ask questions, and contribute. Perhaps even benefit the community more as a whole. Some of this could easily be solved by having a open readable sub-forum with a "permission to post" grouping or some such rot.

As for someone to moderate, it would seriously have to be someone without a dog in the race. Someone who is both willing to cut through crap while simultaneously not favoring opinion. Anyone other than someone who fits that criteria is either going to cause some sort of "elitist upheaval" b/s or pull the sub-forum down a favored line. If we are all sharing experiences, theories, and training methodologies it needs to be just that.

[Bodywork]

Many, oh hell I'd bet most of you, will never know.

To be fair, as soon as you say 'most of you will never know', you are implying you do know... and therefore you are making this discussion about you.

You know and others don't and never will. Which would mean if the sub-forum actually happened, you might spend a lot of time in it talking to yourself.

I can only gather that you either haven't read what I wrote or you are purposefully jabbing at me.
Last time
I said that in the past I was drawn here because of the resource and writing about IP (even then you had to wade through the B.S. but it was there.
Explain to me how that is about me?
I said there are many here who know and who will just no longer post anymore.
How is that about me?
I am trying to bring it to peoples attention to find a way to welcome some of those people and those discussions back here.
Now listen and read slowly. In that last sentence that is about me. Would you like to know why?
So that I can learn from them and meet some people in person who share common interest
Now...many seem to have trouble so I will repeat.
Would you like to know why I ma trying to get them back?
So that I can learn from them.
And you will too.
Apparently people have trouble porcessing, so I suggest reading it three or four times.

[bailu]

What is "internal power"?

[Bodywork]

What is "internal power"?

Here?
Apparently a shoulder throw leg sweep or any jujutsu technique done in the big three Chinese arts.

[ilove_thistuff]

I'd like to be in it if it happens but how do you determine if your cool enough to join in?

[I am...]

What is "internal power"?

A quote from Bodywork a while back sums it up what his feels like somewhat accurately:
"Another way to look at it is a washing machine agitator. If I welded a peg though a steel rod (that is the agitator) and told you to hold onto the peg with a hand on either side, and I told you the “motor” was a 1000 horsepower engine, and to “hold on tight” and I turned it on...what would happen? Well, when you got out of the hospital you would say “wow” some kind of power. Then, we could weld little steel arms to the pegs and put gloves on them, then have you stand in front of it again, and I turn on the motor….when you get out of the hospital, I will ask you to grab the arms of the agitator and try to "throw it." When yu get out of the hopsital, I will ask...
Did the agitator rod ever "lose its balance?"
Did it need to "transfer weight from side to side?"
Wasn’t the forward motion of one side of the peg balanced by the opposite side?
When you tried to maniplate one side to throw, what happened to the balance of the "other side?"

My teacher, for lack of a better description feels a bit like a combination of a tank mated with dual helix coiling longbows firing lances at you. Its nothing like any force I encountered fighting people that did Judo, Muay Thai, or San Da, be it on impact or trying to affect the body of the individual that has the skill.

[meeks]

Question is, how would you select who is 'worthy' of joining? Theres some guys on this forum that have a lot to offer that also think IP is completely different than what other people think... Do we select guys based on our agreeing with their opinion, and think "ye, but he doesnt 'get it'" to others?

[Steve Rowe]

The first rule of the IP Forum is that you don't talk about the IP Forum....

[meeks]

Hahahaha...!

[AllanF]

This thread is a good reason why there needs to be a sub forum, too many threads that could start off interesting devolve at break neck speed into "you're a prick!" threads!
All those people who talk about ego...go take a long hard look in your own mirror, you have no less of an ego than those you proport to be egotistical!

The sub forum should be what RSF is mean to be about, a place where people actively and openly discuss internal training! Is it just me who is interested in learning what other people and styles do in the internal training so i can improve myself and try to reach the top of the mountain in a more efficient way? when i feel, see or hear about someone with unusual power or can do unsusal things i am certainly NOT going to throw the baby out with the bath water and say BS or that's not the way i do it...that would be moronic!
The thing is about IP when you take away all the superficial taolu of taiji, bagua and xingyi and when you actually watch the way top master move and generate power they are all very similar.

Why don't we listen to the bagua/xingyi/taiji/daitoryu/[IMA of your choice] guy when he says in our system the core jibengong/IP genteration is done this way? Feck me you just never it might improve your gongfu...perish the thought.

Oh and if you are not interested in that kind of "ego driven" discussion don't get involved in the conversation and stick to "best shoes for taiji" threads as productive as that is!

Usually i am very tolerant but not after 2 hours sleep and screaming babies!

[Chris McKinley]

I certainly see where you're coming from, Allan. However, thus far there has been no clarification as to whether the proposed forum would operate such as you described. IOW, there has been no clear statement either way that actual informative discussion will be provided, nor that it will be made available to those who would most benefit from it, i.e., those who don't yet have "it". If anything, what little information we have seems to indicate that such people will not even make it past the velvet ropes to the VIP "invitation only" section inside. Even once inside, it is unclear just exactly what would be discussed, given that a) all of the participants will have been pre-selected to conform to a specific definition of what "internal power" is, and b) it has been stated repeatedly that IP must be felt, taught and discussed in person and cannot be discussed meaningfully on a discussion forum.

[I am...]

So we've got a washing machine against dual helix coiling longbows.

It's not just the power out . . . . it's also handling the power in, i.e., neutralization, without going off your own center.

LOL, funny to see how ridiculous that is in print. Good point on the power going in...

[WVMark]

Question is, how would you select who is 'worthy' of joining? Theres some guys on this forum that have a lot to offer that also think IP is completely different than what other people think... Do we select guys based on our agreeing with their opinion, and think "ye, but he doesnt 'get it'" to others?

I would imagine that there is already a core group of people who believe that IP has a completely different definition than those who think IP is based upon techniques and/or timing. That's a start. I don't remember who said it first, but I think if this forum would be created, it'd be nice to allow everyone to read it (Just not let *everyone* post in it). Having been hands on with only a few people, I would guess that Akuzawa's people have a good understanding of IP. Sam Chin's people, too. But my circle is small. I'd also bet that people I know also know other people who understand IP. The martial world really isn't *that* big.

Or take the opposite approach. Let everyone post initially and start weeding out those who obviously don't understand IP. As time goes by, those who keep arguing that IP is based on timing, body movement in techniques, etc will be weeded out. Course, if the weeding isn't done quickly, those trying to talk about IP will get frustrated and leave.

No good answers. Anyway, thanks for thinking about the proposal. If you need an extra set of mod hands, I'd volunteer some time.

Mark

[Chris McKinley]

Interloper wrote:
Why is there such a negative reaction to "invitation only" as though only "VIPs" and people already "in the know" would be invited?

We don't really know for sure either way yet, but in answer to your question, we have what Dan himself wrote on page 1:

"Because to some of us the forum is what has become the circle jerk and some of us who like internal arts might like to discuss it with others who are actually interested in internal power and are not interested in debating and arguing with people who:
1. Don't have any
2. Have no idea what it is
3. Think it is bullshit
4. Think it is equal to good golfing or any good athlete.

We want to leave everyone else to enjoy their non- internal discussions on RSF The internal Martial arts forum-while we get to discuss training in actual internal power. I think it is an idea that with some thought might get off the ground."

Numbers 1 and 2 make clear that those who either don't have it or don't know what it is, and therefore not "in the know", would be excluded and left to enjoy their non-internal discussions. Perhaps a clarification or a retraction is in order if that is not what was meant.