"Your jiu-jitsu should be like taijiquan."

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

"Your jiu-jitsu should be like taijiquan."

Postby nianfong on Thu May 15, 2008 10:25 pm

Posted by: CaliG Posted on: May 9th, 2008, 2:56pm
Today in jiu-jitsu Crosley Gracie was saying that the white belts and the blue belts have to learn to relax.

That our jiu-jitsu should be like taijiquan, flowing from one technique to the other.

Otherwise if we don't relax we can't get to know our bodies and will just rely on strength and power. Grin

I never thought I'd hear that from an MMA fighter. I know there's was a reason I chose to train at his school.
Posted by: Golden Galo Posted on: May 9th, 2008, 4:05pm
Very cool.
Posted by: ilove_thistuff Posted on: May 9th, 2008, 9:55pm
damn skippy!....bout time ima gets some recognition ahahhahah Smiley
Posted by: Walk_the_Torque Posted on: May 9th, 2008, 10:24pm
You could say vica versa. Your tai ji should be like ju jitsu, brutal and well rounded.
Posted by: CaliG Posted on: May 10th, 2008, 10:42am
on May 9th, 2008, 10:24pm, Walk_the_Torque wrote:
You could say vica versa. Your tai ji should be like ju jitsu, brutal and well rounded.


Taiji is brutal and well rounded.

It has sanda, shuai jiao, qinna, dan xue and the internal.

It's probably one of the oldest mixed martial arts out there.
Posted by: Dmitri Posted on: May 10th, 2008, 3:03pm
on May 10th, 2008, 10:42am, CaliG wrote:


Taiji is brutal and well rounded.

It has sanda, shuai jiao, qinna, dan xue and the internal.

It's probably one of the oldest mixed martial arts out there.

Cool

FWIW, I've heard a few similar things from GJJ guys (brown and black belts)... The emphasis is on not using brute force, on using whole-body structure/strength, etc. Naturally, it's not nearly as heavily emphasized for the beginners as it is in TJQ -- these are very different arts after all. But it's clearly there and almost all of the better/more advanced people (though definitely not all) are extremely soft and always listening and using your mistakes against you instead of forcing their own agenda (which they also could, and some do.)
Posted by: Frank Posted on: May 10th, 2008, 4:02pm
All, the time I hear my instructor, Regis Lebre, say things that could be taken exactly from the taiji classics. He even uses the term energy a lot, like, "put your energy in this leg."

I got the chance to roll with him today and his main feedback was, control your breathing and use less strength. All good BJJ, like any good martial art, emphasizes fundamental body mechanics, whole body power and "minimum effort maximum effect".
Posted by: Butterball Posted on: May 10th, 2008, 4:49pm
You train over at Maxercise Frank? Good school!!
Posted by: Ben Posted on: May 10th, 2008, 7:22pm
Smiley Thats very cool.
Posted by: kenneth_delves Posted on: May 11th, 2008, 5:53pm
I understand that when the Gracies started teaching BJJ in the USA there was extensive breathing and Yoga training but everyone wanted technique so it wasnt emphasised. Some years ago I attended a series of Systema seminars when Vladimir started teaching in the States, similarly there were sensitivity and breathing methods taught , similarly by the third seminar the focus was on physical conditioning and techniques, I hope this has changed.
Posted by: Kreese Posted on: May 11th, 2008, 6:22pm
That seems to be the state of the current market, Ken. Fighters don't want the breathing and sensitivity training, while those interested in energetics and other not-specifically-for-fighting training are scared off by actual contact and the prospect of "losing". What happened to he idea of being a well-rounded individual?
Posted by: CaliG Posted on: May 11th, 2008, 7:01pm
I remember when BJJ first appeared out here you'd see magazine articles showing self-defense techniques from traditional ju-jitsu.

In fact I recall a Mario Sperry article in BB showing how to fight up against a wall.

These days most schools are focussed on competitions so they just show a few techinques and then you roll for half an hour, but not all of them are like that. Then again if your students are focussed on winning competitions then lots of rolling is the way to go, but I think it's unfortunate that more people aren't getting the complete Jiu-jitsu package because I think it makes the art more interesting.

In fact I chose Crosley's school because they do throws in every class and the other BJJ schools in my area don't.
Posted by: Ian Posted on: May 11th, 2008, 7:19pm
on May 11th, 2008, 5:53pm, kenneth_delves wrote:
I understand that when the Gracies started teaching BJJ in the USA there was extensive breathing and Yoga training but everyone wanted technique so it wasnt emphasised. Some years ago I attended a series of Systema seminars when Vladimir started teaching in the States, similarly there were sensitivity and breathing methods taught , similarly by the third seminar the focus was on physical conditioning and techniques, I hope this has changed.


Breathing is a keystone in Systema. It's in everything we do. So even - or especially - when the focus is on more strenuous work, breathing is emphasized.
Posted by: Butterball Posted on: May 12th, 2008, 6:54am
There's alot more BJJ schools offering Yoga classes as a complement to their regular programs, as such there are more fighters who are aware of the neccesity for focus on breathing, posture and awareness.Of course some students dig deeper into the practices than others, and some schools focus more or less on those types of programs; but it's pretty cool to see it going in that direction.
Posted by: T J LePetomane Posted on: May 12th, 2008, 9:17am
Yes, soon they'll have set patterns of techniques that they practice in a continuously flowing motion coordinated with their breath without a partner.
Posted by: Kreese Posted on: May 12th, 2008, 9:42am
Ian,

Systema's major appeal to me is the combination of breathwork and paired drills. I have a feeling that more and more "internal" arts will/should evolve in this direction. You can't ignore the health and power gained from breathwork and other body awareness/control practices. Paired work is provided the necessary resistance and feedback that leads to proficient fighting skills. Forms do still have their place, but the more we cross-train and distill the principles down to their essence, the less we'll depend on choreography.

It's late, and I'm thinking out loud. Peace.
Posted by: Butterball Posted on: May 12th, 2008, 5:51pm
on May 12th, 2008, 9:17am, T J LePetomane wrote:
Yes, soon they'll have set patterns of techniques that they practice in a continuously flowing motion coordinated with their breath without a partner.



Ginastica Natural?
Posted by: T J LePetomane Posted on: May 12th, 2008, 6:10pm
on May 12th, 2008, 5:51pm, Butterball wrote:



Ginastica Natural?


Okay, I'm too lazy to actually do the legwork, so just imagine that, instead of this sentence, I posted a big gif of a guy pointing at his nose.

If they had a sense of meridians and Qi circulation as developed as the chinese have had for as many generations, I imagine it would look much more like Taiji.
Posted by: Frank Posted on: May 12th, 2008, 7:18pm
Yeah, Josh I train at Maxercise. It's a neat place.

My understanding is that Steve modified a lot of yoga type exercises, and of course there's the kettlebell program. We even do some exercises that look kind of like chansujing exercises. Regis also puts us through some brutal breathing exercises as well.

And then there's the Judo club. It's hurty.
Posted by: Ian Posted on: May 12th, 2008, 7:19pm
on May 12th, 2008, 9:42am, Kreese wrote:

You can't ignore the health and power gained from breathwork and other body awareness/control practices.


Of course not.

Kenneth seems to think that the same trend one observes in BJJ exists in Systema, i.e. it used to be more about breathing and sensitivity, and now people are focusing on physical conditioning and techniques.

I don't see that trend at all.

We have such a plethora of drills in Systema that it's hard to discern a trend from only a few classes.

Sometimes we just spar without warming up; sometimes we spend the whole class working on physical conditioning and breathing; sometimes we go by topic and take it in a step-by-step progression.

I'm reticent to say this, but, if anything, it seems like some schools are focusing more on breathing and sensitivity, and less on learning about self defense. The former is easier, and the latter is more difficult. But rest assured, there are many very good teachers teaching some very good work.

Anyway, no need to sell Systema to me, my friend Smiley
Posted by: Ian Posted on: May 12th, 2008, 7:23pm
Eitherhow, taichi groundwork. Yeah. Where's Shooter when you need him? Cheesy
Posted by: Butterball Posted on: May 12th, 2008, 8:04pm
on May 12th, 2008, 7:18pm, Frank wrote:
Yeah, Josh I train at Maxercise. It's a neat place.

My understanding is that Steve modified a lot of yoga type exercises, and of course there's the kettlebell program. We even do some exercises that look kind of like chansujing exercises. Regis also puts us through some brutal breathing exercises as well.

And then there's the Judo club. It's hurty.


Good stuff. I'm glad to hear you are at a good spot! They definitely have a good mix with the kettlebells, BJJ and the Judo program. I've competed against some of the guys there and they are strong as hell, and good!
Posted by: taichitoni Posted on: Today at 8:05pm
I have always thought of Jujitsu with the highest taiji respect. We call it 'Killer Taiji'.
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Re: "Your jiu-jitsu should be like taijiquan."

Postby Frank on Fri May 16, 2008 5:48 pm

Thanks Josh. I've seen some videos of you and you look like a monster. I'd like to get together sometime and train since we're close to the same weight.
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Re: "Your jiu-jitsu should be like taijiquan."

Postby Butterball on Fri May 16, 2008 6:27 pm

Thanks! Absolutely, I always like meeting up with EF folk. I might have some time open up in a few weeks. I'll pm you when I figure out what my schedule is looking like.
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