Help me understand how I lost the first round

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Help me understand how I lost the first round

Postby nianfong on Thu May 15, 2008 10:29 pm

Posted by: Golden Galo Posted on: May 9th, 2008, 11:15pm
Hi guys,

I was watching the video of my last fights and started questioning the judgement of the first round of my second fight. In this round the judges give a unanimous (sp?) decision to to my opponent. I don't mean to take anything away from him, he was a very good fighter, but after watching the fight again I started to feel like that round was either even or I might have won. I blocked most (if not all) of his kicks and he landed only a few punches. I even dodged his big spinning back kick. I landed more than a few leg kicks and more than a few punches.

If you guys would kindly do me the favor of revieweing the video and tell me your opinions. If you can tell me why you think the judges gave him the decision I would appreciate it as well. The second fight starts at around 1:47. Thanks.


Posted by: josh Posted on: May 10th, 2008, 10:10am
From the video it's hard to tell what is landing and what is not, but I did see one or two clean headshots that he got on you. It looked like he maybe finished the round a little stronger than you, although you were more aggressive early on. Maybe work a little more on putting together flurries at the end of the round? In the third round he also looked more aggressive towards the end. FWIW Smiley Good showing though!
Posted by: nianfong Posted on: May 10th, 2008, 11:02am
wow these are really fast rounds... 40 secs? you barely have time to get into a rhythm.

about that round, I can't really see everything that's happening, but it looks like you barely scored any hits, while your opponent scored a couple marginal shots.

I probably would have scored him just a little more than you, if I were the corner judge.

-Fong
Posted by: C-Hopkins Posted on: May 10th, 2008, 12:03pm
Hey Galo-

Good show. assuming you're the guy in the white,
I'm curious about not what you think you did wrong (what is "wrong" anyway?)

But what you think you could've done to beat this guy in particuar, remembering that in a competitive match it's benefiscial to understand your opponent (because every opponent is different...)


Consider this:

Given the fact that he's clearly reliant on striking, would it have been benifiscial to use the ring more. rather than squaring up with him and fighting his game?

Noitice in watching that he attacks fairly often, with pauses in between attacks, while you attack much less-

Would it be benefiscial to attack more and exploit the pauses in his attack?

would he crumble under heavy pressure?

Who's cardio is better? Could his conditioning or lack thereof be exploited?

One thing I know for sure is that you have the potential to have some really fast hands, and i could honestly envision you moving around him alot, not giving him a standing target and unloading on him with well placed flurries- but that would also mean being able to let go of everything and throw lots of punches.

Just some thoughts- What is right really?


Peace
Posted by: Golden Galo Posted on: May 10th, 2008, 12:26pm
Hey guys,

Thanks for the input. The third round was definitely his, I was tired as hell and sick at the same time.

You're right about putting some flurries together, should have done that more. I thought I landed alot more kicks than he did tho. I feel like every kick he threw I either blocked with my shin or avoided. He did land a couple of head shots but I felt I landed a few myself. I guess ultimately it did rely on me to win the round. I should have been more aggressive and put more flurries together.

C-Hopkins, I think you watched the first fighet. I'll pass on the advise to my opponent if I see him again. Grin (I was the guy in the tan shirt and black pants)
Posted by: Darth Rock-n-Roll Posted on: May 10th, 2008, 1:01pm
commitment to attack and aggressive entry gets you points.

defensive fighting will always get you the loss.

rounds may be short, but fighting opponent after opponent isn't really a great idea and is the shitty part about 1 day or weekend events. I see why they do it...for money and time and everyone to get their card etc etc.

Anyway, I think he got the points and you didn't because you were fighting defensively and he was being more aggressive.

Posted by: C-Hopkins Posted on: May 10th, 2008, 1:42pm
Oh. Grin

This is actually an interesting topic-

It's tantalizing to me to see how the right gameplan can totally swing the outcome of a fight.

Some of my favorite fights were the Arturo Gatti/Mickey Ward fights. They were great because allthough they had their own gameplans at the start, they eventually both devolved to straight out brawls- Bloody As hell, but good entertainment.
In the end, it was just the one that was better at that particular game that won- plus I think Gatti was probably in better shape;

Cross refference that with Lennox Lewis/ Hasim Rocman 1 and 2-

The first one they both fought a similar game- we of course know Rockman KO'd him-

But this is the interesting thing-

With a total change of strategy, in the second fight Lewis came out and just shot jab after jab at him all night long, setting him up time and time again with the same jab and when he was dazed followed up with the big right...

He performed a clinic on him and knocked him out easy.

The two side by side are interesting.

I think your asking the right questions!
Posted by: C-Hopkins Posted on: May 10th, 2008, 1:52pm
Links:

Gatti/Ward



Lewis Rocman 2



Posted by: Deus Trismegistus Posted on: May 10th, 2008, 2:09pm
I just watched it and I didn't see either of you get a clear advantage. My guess is he was given the round solely for being more aggressive.
Posted by: Golden Galo Posted on: May 10th, 2008, 4:02pm
Yeah, I think his aggressiveness might have won him the round. Kinda sucks tho because I had just finished fighting one fighter and gotten used to his style of fighting and then had to adjust to someone else's style of fighting right away. He had the advantage in that he fought the first fight, took a break to watch me fight my fight and then stepped up to fight me. I saw him fight his first fight but it's hard to adjust in the blink of an eye from one opponent's style of fighting to anothers when they are so different.

Anyhow, I'm just giving excuses and probably sounding like a bitchy sour loser. Truth is he was a very tough fighter and hell of a nice guy. I should have taken more control and been more aggressive. Thanks for the input tho fellas, it really has helped me. Now I need to take the feed back and make my game better.

One question tho, in a fight with longer rounds when you want to pace yourself...how do you mix aggressiveness with pacing your fight? I don't want to come out really aggressive and effectively punch myself out of the fight within the first round. This is something I'm going to have to work on.
Posted by: Golden Galo Posted on: May 10th, 2008, 4:06pm
C-Hopkins...just a little about my game plan with the first guy (the guy in white) my game plan was exactly that...to make him square off with me and for me to take the inside because he was much taller than me. Thank goodness he played into it because if he had used his range he probably would have hurt me alot worse.
Posted by: nianfong Posted on: May 10th, 2008, 8:19pm
agreed about taking to the attack. if you play defensive, it's more likely that you will be scored lower.
Posted by: OldRed Posted on: May 10th, 2008, 9:01pm
on May 9th, 2008, 11:15pm, Golden Galo wrote:
Hi guys,

I was watching the video of my last fights and started questioning the judgement of the first round of my second fight. In this round the judges give a unanimous (sp?) decision to to my opponent. I don't mean to take anything away from him, he was a very good fighter, but after watching the fight again I started to feel like that round was either even or I might have won. I blocked most (if not all) of his kicks and he landed only a few punches. I even dodged his big spinning back kick. I landed more than a few leg kicks and more than a few punches.

If you guys would kindly do me the favor of revieweing the video and tell me your opinions. If you can tell me why you think the judges gave him the decision I would appreciate it as well. The second fight starts at around 1:47. Thanks.





I watched breifly.
Here's my 2 cents:

You're not fighting. You're trading shots. Get in there with the goal of destroying your opponenet in the shortest amount of time possible. Never attack in anything less than 3's. It's almost all one beat, re-position, block, then attack with one beat again. You will never win big like that if at all. Aggression, forward motion, and nothing less then combinations of 3 at all times. After the first few seconds your opponent should be wondering why they signed up for this kind of abuse.
Posted by: BAI_HE Posted on: May 10th, 2008, 9:36pm
I watched breifly.
Here's my 2 cents:

You're not fighting. You're trading shots. Get in there with the goal of destroying your opponenet in the shortest amount of time possible. Never attack in anything less than 3's. It's almost all one beat, re-position, block, then attack with one beat again. You will never win big like that if at all. Aggression, forward motion, and nothing less then combinations of 3 at all times. After the first few seconds your opponent should be wondering why they signed up for this kind of abuse.


That's about as good advice as you'll ever get. Especially in 1 min rounds.
Watch the Golden Gloves kids go at it on ESPN or at a PAL event sometime. It will make a lot of sense. They just get to business quick, because of the rules, time and number of rounds.

You looked good tho. Real good.

Seems like ten minutes ago you discovered taiji, showed up here, found MT and now you're
putting it on the line...
Hat's off!

BTW - What about your Son? What's he studying now?

Beat,
p
Posted by: T J LePetomane Posted on: May 10th, 2008, 9:50pm
Yep, defintely the agression factor. You played a good street game, but it's a ring, so that works against you.

Like a certain Wang from Texas once said, playing defense might get you a win in some ways, but nobody likes to see it, so it can definitely lose your ring career. (or something like that)

Where is that Taiji vs. SC clip at, i can't find it anywhere.
Posted by: ashe Posted on: May 10th, 2008, 11:14pm
G,

weren't you still getting over an illness? to me you just looked like you were tired. you held your own but just didn't have any spark.
Posted by: Golden Galo Posted on: May 11th, 2008, 9:26am
Hey Ashe,

I was actually right in the middle of the illness. Although it really didn't hit me until the third round. All the adrenaline kept me going, but in the third round I could barely move.
Posted by: sinkpoint Posted on: May 11th, 2008, 2:20pm
From what I can see, you weren't hurting him.
Sure, there were the odd strikes, but it didn't seem like you had any real weapons to faze him and stop his momentum and attacks. He was landing solid strikes that were rocking your balance, but you didn't have the same power. Therefore your defensive stances weren't worth it.

In your case the better idea would had been better to maintain range and avoid trading with him, and move in and out for fast combos.
Posted by: Deus Trismegistus Posted on: May 11th, 2008, 9:17pm
on May 10th, 2008, 4:02pm, Golden Galo wrote:


One question tho, in a fight with longer rounds when you want to pace yourself...how do you mix aggressiveness with pacing your fight? I don't want to come out really aggressive and effectively punch myself out of the fight within the first round. This is something I'm going to have to work on.


Work the jab. It doesn't require a lot of energy on your part and if you have decent jab he will have to respect that strike and stay where you want him then you use it to set up combinations. Ina long match you can't just go in with every punch trying to knock the other guy out. You have to set up your power strikes and leading with a jab or a front kick is a great way to do that.
Posted by: Teazer Posted on: May 12th, 2008, 9:52am
on May 10th, 2008, 4:02pm, Golden Galo wrote:
He had the advantage in that he fought the first fight, took a break to watch me fight my fight and then stepped up to fight me. I saw him fight his first fight but it's hard to adjust in the blink of an eye from one opponent's style of fighting to anothers when they are so different.


In those situations, pressing the attack even more vigorously against the second person has the advantage of 1. not being what he expected from seeing the previous fight, and 2. When people are feeling threatened & defensive they tend to revert to their oldest strategies & techniques, not necessarily their best.

Quote:
I should have taken more control and been more aggressive.

The other factor was he had a better control of distance than you in this fight. This ties back in to why it looked like his shots were more effective than yours. Many of yours were out of range.

Quote:
One question tho, in a fight with longer rounds when you want to pace yourself...how do you mix aggressiveness with pacing your fight? I don't want to come out really aggressive and effectively punch myself out of the fight within the first round. This is something I'm going to have to work on.


First, it's always better to train so you have more stamina than the other person. Combined with high intensity sessions so you don't pace yourself too much. (Practicing by sparring against a couple of alternating opponents is good since they can keep the pressure on).

Most important is not to waste your stamina so quick. As much as possible, use power from the legs & waist rather than arm strength since that'll run out very quickly.

Then pick some efficient moves you can do all day long. For me that was jab & front kick. Since I had reach on most people I could always spend a little time getting my breath back & pick the other person off at a distance. Let them work hard to get in.

Beyond that it's just a case of being comfortable with the format.
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