San ti and stepping

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

San ti and stepping

Postby nianfong on Thu May 15, 2008 10:35 pm

Posted by: Deus Trismegistus Posted on: Apr 22nd, 2008, 5:35pm
I just learned the Xing jing form of GM Chang and have improved quite a bit since sunday. Initially I was putting my weight in the front leg in most of the steps when I was told I should keep the weight front/back, 70/30. I was also having problems in San ti keeping my weight over my back foot lkike in a cat stance.

I have since noticed that when I put 30% forward I can push off much better with my back leg. What I am still having problems with is being able to move forward but stop in a 30/70 stance. I tend to land in a 70/30 front and then I have to shift back.

What I want to know is this normal?

Lastly if you experienced Xingyi guys had to give some simple advice on how to step properly and on a proper san ti what would it be?
Posted by: Felipe_Bido Posted on: Apr 22nd, 2008, 7:59pm
It is normal, don't worry. Plenty of practice focused on the weight distribution of the back foot, plus focusing on stepping with the front foot in a straight down fashion (rather than 'sliding the foot') will teach you the way to avoid weight shifting while moving.

After a while, you can step forward sliding your foot and your weight distribution won't go crazy.
Posted by: GrahamB Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2008, 2:14am
Felipe has the correct (as usual Smiley )
Posted by: sweet and low mix Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2008, 4:57am
Play with flexing your legs together and then pushing them apart while you are in san ti. That will help your stepping. Just be aware of the weight distribution.
Posted by: MantisBoxer Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2008, 6:45am
What is Xing Jing?
Thanks
Jake
Posted by: Deus Trismegistus Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2008, 6:47am
As i understand it Xing Jing is a form GM Chang created. Jing means essence so I am guessing it could be roughly translated as the form essence, or essence of form.

I am guessing he named it as such because he thought this form contained the most important aspects of xingyi, or it acurately captured the essence of xingyi.
Posted by: Deus Trismegistus Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2008, 6:50am
on Apr 22nd, 2008, 7:59pm, Felipe_Bido wrote:
It is normal, don't worry. Plenty of practice focused on the weight distribution of the back foot, plus focusing on stepping with the front foot in a straight down fashion (rather than 'sliding the foot') will teach you the way to avoid weight shifting while moving.

After a while, you can step forward sliding your foot and your weight distribution won't go crazy.


When I step I extend my front foot as I push off with the back foot and when my front foot lands I feel like it is a post going into the ground. Do some people slide their front foot forward as they land?
Posted by: mix in a box Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2008, 8:06am
on Apr 23rd, 2008, 6:50am, Deus Trismegistus wrote:


When I step I extend my front foot as I push off with the back foot and when my front foot lands I feel like it is a post going into the ground. Do some people slide their front foot forward as they land?


Its pretty much the standard practice for a lot of hebei lines. Smiley
Posted by: Deus Trismegistus Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2008, 9:44am
on Apr 23rd, 2008, 8:06am, mix in a box wrote:


Its pretty much the standard practice for a lot of hebei lines. Smiley



I guess I am doing pretty well so far then. Since I learned it in a seminar the instruction wasn't very detailed I jsut tried my best to pick up on how Daniel Weng was moving.
Posted by: mix in a box Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2008, 10:04am
Think Tang ni bu (mud walking step). Its essentially the same step with the front foot as is found in most Cheng style bagua lines. The difference is that you want to have stopping force as well. Getting stopping force is a big part of learning how to get power in your wu xing.
Posted by: Qiphlow Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2008, 12:03pm
sorry deus, i don't mean to hijack your thread, but i've got a xingyi stepping question or 2 myself:

when the front foot steps out: heel-toe, or mud step?
(or is it style-dependent?)

hand and foot arrive together, right?
striking hand and front foot, or striking hand and back foot are arriving together?

thanks,
jeff
(having fun playing with xingyi right now)
Posted by: nianfong Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2008, 12:13pm
deus, take a vid of yourself doing it, and we can give you pointers online.
Posted by: xingyijuan Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2008, 12:18pm
Qiphlow's avatar = perfect energy transfer! Grin
Posted by: nianfong Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2008, 12:35pm
ok you asked for it. alizee has now returned to show teh TRUE energy transfer
Posted by: Felipe_Bido Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2008, 12:41pm
on Apr 23rd, 2008, 12:03pm, Qiphlow wrote:
sorry deus, i don't mean to hijack your thread, but i've got a xingyi stepping question or 2 myself:

when the front foot steps out: heel-toe, or mud step?
(or is it style-dependent?)

hand and foot arrive together, right?
striking hand and front foot, or striking hand and back foot are arriving together?

thanks,
jeff
(having fun playing with xingyi right now)


Heel-toe, usually

and the front foot and front hand arrive together. Althought there are people that do Beng quan with the 'front hand-back foot' connection
Posted by: xingyijuan Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2008, 12:51pm
on Apr 23rd, 2008, 12:35pm, nianfong wrote:
ok you asked for it. alizee has now returned to show teh TRUE energy transfer


YEAH! Now we're talking! I can feel the energy!!!! EF Traditional stylez! Grin
Posted by: Deus Trismegistus Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2008, 12:53pm
Nian and Qiphlow those are two of my all time favorite avatars, if you change them I will cry.
Posted by: mix in a box Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2008, 1:24pm
on Apr 23rd, 2008, 12:41pm, Felipe_Bido wrote:


Heel-toe, usually

and the front foot and front hand arrive together. Althought there are people that do Beng quan with the 'front hand-back foot' connection


Thats really interesting.
I have always been taught that tangni bu is an essential aspect of delivering force in hebei xingyi.
I've only been exposed to two different teachers, but both of them have done it that way. I honestly think that delivering xingyi techniques on a heal toe type step would have much less power.
OTOH, from having seen your videos, you obviously have the powah.
I'm confused Huh
Posted by: Felipe_Bido Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2008, 1:40pm
Well, it's not like you are stepping on your heels and taking your time to land your toes. The time between the heel landing and the toes landing is just a split second, but you can feel that the heel got there first.
Posted by: mix in a box Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2008, 2:12pm
I dig it.
We just do it a little differently. Smiley
Posted by: Jose Alb Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2008, 2:36pm
Hey mix, i was just watching Mr. Hai do his stepping. He favors horizontal power transfer, over vertical (and he's bloody great at it). The sliding step is perfect for this.

The stepping that our teacher does favors a more vertical type of power outlet (heel/toe stamps heavily and the whole body rises up for a second, uncoiling the spine).

Posted by: mix in a box Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2008, 3:08pm
That makes good sense. Smiley
Posted by: Qiphlow Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2008, 3:49pm
thanks felipe. Smiley
Posted by: Deus Trismegistus Posted on: Apr 25th, 2008, 6:47pm
on Apr 23rd, 2008, 12:13pm, nianfong wrote:
deus, take a vid of yourself doing it, and we can give you pointers online.


You asked and I provide.

Disclaimer: I have known this form for 5 days, my teacher has not seen it yet or corrected anything.

PS: I slipped on the grass. Just ignore that part lol.


Posted by: For Posted on: Apr 26th, 2008, 12:10am
on Apr 25th, 2008, 6:47pm, Deus Trismegistus wrote:


You asked and I provide.

Disclaimer: I have known this form for 5 days, my teacher has not seen it yet or corrected anything.

PS: I slipped on the grass. Just ignore that part lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qnYgzC3aFs

Yep, you are in the early stages in that video, you need to focus on keeping a single center. Then focus on putting that mainly over one leg, also focus on doing it slower and more evenly pace. I mean what has you appearing to forward weight, your going to quick for where your head is at. The strikes look ok!, from what I can see, relax and slow down so you can know exactly what you are doing.

I have been at Hsing Yi for around 20 some years not that this matters the length of time. What I do is go thru the moves slow for six times than do them fast for four times. That is a way to get them into your body. Slow is best because you can think with each move, I mean be there where you are and not be all scattered brain. Sorry about the waxing philosophic.

When you are stepping you need to focus on how to step, the back foot is to be pulled forward in a certain way. It is to build the inside of the leg muscles. Watch your instructor next time you get a chance. It will look like a opposite effect on a skip/slid step.

The only time I remember in Hsing Yi having center weighted was when you pivot all the way around on the turn at the end of each section of the different forms you do. Even then you would need to focus on the concept of 70/30 weight. That uses the front of one foot and the back of another at first. Than in time if you feel that has you off balance you can learn to do from the center of the foot. If you do that is what they call double weighting.

Good luck, I hope that does not offend you.
Posted by: Deus Trismegistus Posted on: Apr 26th, 2008, 3:47am
not offended at all. My teacher should have time to look at it and make corrections today.

I do have a tendency to front weight. It is a habit of mine from shaolin where in our bow, and power stance the weight is 70 percent forward usually. I also made it worse because in sparring most people are always retreating with me so I keep my weight forward to be able to follow them quickly.

Thanks for the input!
Posted by: middleway Posted on: Apr 26th, 2008, 3:57am
one interesting thing to visualise in XY stepping is to imagine you have just dropped a £20 note (or dollar bill) and its blowing away.

You shoot your foot out and grip it onto the note to trap it under your foot. When my teacher mentioned this it immediately made more sense.

its an interesting way to understand the leading of the front foot.... then connect up the rest of the body, the spiral/spring force in the rear leg, the spine n all the rest of that jazz ... n your there! Cheesy

Cheers
Chris
Posted by: Qiphlow Posted on: Apr 26th, 2008, 9:40am
on Apr 26th, 2008, 3:57am, middleway wrote:
one interesting thing to visualise in XY stepping is to imagine you have just dropped a £20 note (or dollar bill) and its blowing away.

You shoot your foot out and grip it onto the note to trap it under your foot.


wow chris--that comment just gave me a major "a-ha!" moment! thanks!
--jeff
Posted by: middleway Posted on: Apr 26th, 2008, 4:14pm
no probs! Grin

cheers
chris
Posted by: For Posted on: Apr 26th, 2008, 8:40pm
That is nice one Chris, yea it would even imply the fee
ling.
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Re: San ti and stepping

Postby nianfong on Thu May 15, 2008 10:41 pm

for a beginner, your form is very good man. you should be proud.
I've never liked teaching a beginner the xingjing, but my teacher wants to disseminate it as much as possible among our SC family.

Your timing for your follow steps is pretty good, but honestly, you do it kinda rushed, and the camera is so far away, it's hard to see everything.

I'd recommend you drill the 5 elements individually. start with beng quan to develop your follow step timing and power. You already maintain about the same height in your form, which is good. keep doing that. you still sorta bob up and down to a degree, but it's not too bad. let your hips drive everything, so your arms are like pistons to the hips' crank shaft.

-Fong
Last edited by nianfong on Thu May 15, 2008 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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