Counters

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Counters

Postby johnwang on Fri May 16, 2008 7:19 pm

Omar (bailewen) wrote:

Your teacher's understanding about Taiji is already more than just the Taiji system itself. He has already crossed the bridge between Taiji and SC. In that clip, he demonstrated the counter for a head lock and also a beautiful counter Herd (HONG) 轟.
I'm still allergic to "push".
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Re: Counters

Postby cdobe on Sat May 17, 2008 2:26 am

johnwang wrote:
Omar (bailewen) wrote:

Your teacher's understanding about Taiji is already more than just the Taiji system itself. He has already crossed the bridge between Taiji and SC. In that clip, he demonstrated the counter for a head lock and also a beautiful counter Herd (HONG) 轟.


John,
I practice a lot of headlock counters with Taiji techniques and I have never trained SC. I use techniques like Single Whip, Fair Lady Weaves the Shuttles, Carry Tiger to Mountain and many of the Tuishou patterns from the Shanghai branch of Wu style.

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Re: Counters

Postby bailewen on Sat May 17, 2008 5:54 am

Thank you for your comment John.

Cdobe,

We don't train Shuai Jiao per se, but One of my Shifu's best friends is a national Shuai Jiao coach. He has a team with one of the local universities. Often he comes to the park with his grandson and has his grandson train together with Shifu's grandson. He teaches Shuai Jiao and Tongbei. Also my "da shixiong", Shifu's most senior student, used to compete in Shuai Jiao when he was younger. We have friends in and learn from the Shuai Jiao community as well.

So although we don't train Shuai Jiao or have any formal Shuai Jiao background, we are always getting exposed to it and I ahve seen Shifu discussing Taiji or Shuai Jiao with his Shuai Jiao coach friend.
Last edited by bailewen on Sat May 17, 2008 5:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Counters

Postby johnwang on Sat May 17, 2008 3:44 pm

cdobe wrote:I practice a lot of headlock counters with Taiji techniques and I have never trained SC. I use techniques like Single Whip, Fair Lady Weaves the Shuttles, Carry Tiger to Mountain and many of the Tuishou patterns from the Shanghai branch of Wu style.

Could you explain how to use those moves to counter a head lock?
Last edited by johnwang on Sat May 17, 2008 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Counters

Postby cdobe on Sat May 17, 2008 4:44 pm

johnwang wrote:
cdobe wrote:I practice a lot of headlock counters with Taiji techniques and I have never trained SC. I use techniques like Single Whip, Fair Lady Weaves the Shuttles, Carry Tiger to Mountain and many of the Tuishou patterns from the Shanghai branch of Wu style.

Could you explain how to use those moves to counter a head lock?

Sure!
'Single Whip': The beak hand hooks the opponents hand (that surrounds the neck), the opposite leg steps behind the opponents leg(s) and the arm of the same side attacks the opponent so that he falls backwards over my leg. Another technique derived from 'Single Whip' would be what I think is called eyebrow mopping in SC, mopping with the beak hand and picking up the opponents leg with the open hand arm.
'Fair Lady' is used to pass the opponents surrounding arm over your head and attack his back with a palm strike. That would be to the outside. On the inside you can deflect the surrounding arm with a circular motion like SC's arm wrapping while simultaneaously attacking with a palm strike.
'Carry Tiger to Mountain' can be used as a counter to a guillotine type headlock. The body mechanics of the Wu style version is like diving upwards from an inclined to an upright body posture. I use a similar power in all applications where the opponent manages to surround my neck in order to stay upright (e.g. in the first Single Whip application I described). Against a regular headlock the 'Carry Tiger' application is also similar to the first Single Whip application. You can also use 'Slant Flying' in a similar manner. And these are not the only applications. Another one I use very often is White Crane Spreads Wings as a throw over my hips.

I'm aware that a good headlock can be very tight with a great danger of going to the ground when you throw your opponent. So a key point of my training is reacting early when the intention of the opponent becomes apparent but the headlock is not yet completed. That's where the specialiced Tuishou methods I mentioned come into play. I mostly use them to pass the surrounding arm or to get him into a shoulder lock. When the headlock is around my neck the objective is not to get bend over by using the "diving up" I described. I also try to avoid that the opponent locks his hands so that he can't hold on to me when I throw him.

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