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Yang Shou-Chung, Chu King-Hung and Erle plus Snake Style

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:15 am
by extrajoseph
What do you think of this blog entry? Is it believable?
http://howardchoy.wordpress.com/2013/01 ... montaigue/

Re: Yang Shou-Chung, Chu King-Hung and Erle plus Snake Style

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:11 am
by RobP2
Yes

Re: Yang Shou-Chung, Chu King-Hung and Erle plus Snake Style

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:34 am
by GrahamB
Man, wait till I bring out the long lost Tai Chi Hobbit-Monkey form! You ain't seen nothing yet!

Re: Yang Shou-Chung, Chu King-Hung and Erle plus Snake Style

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:57 am
by hodmeist
I would say that it is believable.
Erle told me personally that he was made an offer of representing Yang Sau Chung through Chu King Hung way back when but when he was told the amount he would have to pay for the priviledge - he told them to "go and do one" as we would say in England . If the offer was made to Erle, why not Howard Choy?

Re: Yang Shou-Chung, Chu King-Hung and Erle plus Snake Style

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:02 am
by hodmeist
The reason why Erle left Chu was because Chu started getting into empty force and other such mumbo jumbo - Erle wanted no part of it.

Re: Yang Shou-Chung, Chu King-Hung and Erle plus Snake Style

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:04 am
by RobP2
There was big money around CKH and co in the early 80s

Re: Yang Shou-Chung, Chu King-Hung and Erle plus Snake Style

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:54 am
by kenneth fish
I remember hearing similar anecdotes about Yang during the same time period (I was living in Taiwan, but spent several months in Hong Kong, teaching English at Maryknoll on Waterloo Road). It seemed like a golden age for fleecing foreigners - I also heard of a few other teachers doing the same thing. Not until China opened up in the late 1990's was there a similar gold rush.....

Re: Yang Shou-Chung, Chu King-Hung and Erle plus Snake Style

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:54 am
by Michael Babin
Erle said essentially the same thing about the money issue between Chu Kin-hung and Yang Sau-chung to me in the early 90s. Similar financial issues [not my place to go into details on a public forum] also played a part in the end of the relationship between Erle and Chu.

There's an old saying "that integrity walks when money talks" and it seems just as prevalent in the martial arts world as anywhere else.

Re: Yang Shou-Chung, Chu King-Hung and Erle plus Snake Style

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:44 pm
by taiwandeutscher
Michael Babin wrote:....
There's an old saying "that integrity walks when money talks" and it seems just as prevalent in the martial arts world as anywhere else.


+100

And that seems to be the reason why so many Chu desciples run away, later rather than sooner, lol. He has also divided EU amongst his indoors. And many seem to not mind Chu's lingkongjin or abilities in gerneral, lol.

Re: Yang Shou-Chung, Chu King-Hung and Erle plus Snake Style

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:17 pm
by daniel pfister
It is truly a shame that there are these issues with the Yang Shou-Chung lineage because the form and style of push hands they do (aside from the 'empty-force' business) is really old-school hard knocks Taijiquan. I hope we can get past these things someday, so that the style can flourish again.

Re: Yang Shou-Chung, Chu King-Hung and Erle plus Snake Style

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:13 pm
by Fubo
I've heard similar things about the money stuff with that line, but I will say that the "snake style" stuff is not post Ip Tai Tak (though he never advertised or "TM" it to the extent it is today), as he freely taught it to the few regular students he had. The guy also had power and skill. I will say that the empty force BS came after Ip, as he said he never saw YSC do it, and believed it to be BS himself and actually called out another Yang practitioner of the same line who did the empty force stuff.

Re: Yang Shou-Chung, Chu King-Hung and Erle plus Snake Style

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:42 am
by Steve Rowe
From my (admittedly poor) memory: When Ma Lee (Mary) Yang opened up her teaching, I went with and courtesy of Jim Uglow and then John Conroy also came with his family and students, Mary sent us over to Ip to talk to, train with and go through his notes to help with our understanding of her Fathers teaching. He talked about 'snake' at that time. It was decided that Bob Boyd would continue training with Ip so that all the HK journey students could share their knowledge and get the full value from what was available, bearing in mind that Jim had also trained extensively with Chu King Hung and John with Chu Gin Soon. We formed the Yang Ma Lee Student Association at that time. I ended up with extensive surgery and complications and couldn't continue with Jim after 10 years private lessons or the HK journeys after 7 visits, so I don't know what happened after that.

Re: Yang Shou-Chung, Chu King-Hung and Erle plus Snake Style

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:20 am
by cloudz
I think the snake style material Bob Boyd teaches has a lot of good elements in it not commonly taught too openly in Yang style. That he's getting it out to a wider audience I think is a good thing. It's good to hear Steve and Fubo confirm that it was talked about by Ip T T. I've always been somewhat unconvinced that Bob Boyd just made it up himself as some sort of marketing ploy or what have you, as suggested by some quarters. The material is solid and that's what's important.

Re: Yang Shou-Chung, Chu King-Hung and Erle plus Snake Style

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:35 am
by Taichiturtle
Ah, politics :)

Re: Yang Shou-Chung, Chu King-Hung and Erle plus Snake Style

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:40 am
by Steve Rowe
My understanding and teaching was that Snake, Crane and Tiger exist in every technique, as did Monk, Warrior and 'Sick Man', you can accent any one 'style' of these in the form depending on what you're working on, otherwise they are in balance.