the baguazhang legacy of Xie Peiqi

[hodmeist]

Bagua is a complex art as it is - I find it somewhat concerning that such senior students of Xie Peiqi as He Jinbao and Liu Shichang can differ in their understanding of the true transmission. Fascinating information and I enjoyed reading it but perhaps I am now understanding why so many students fail to exceed the skills of their teachers although I find He Jinbao impressive on the video clips that I have seen.

[jonathan.bluestein]

hodmeist -

Jinbao was Xie's chosen successor, and spent more than a decade with him 1 on 1. He's thus probably the best authority with regard to the knowledge Xie wanted to transmit... Their Bagua probably differs slightly in external appearance because of their very different body structure. I know from D_glenn that in Yin Bagua there is a tradition of adapting the teaching to body structure in very specific ways, which in turn yields different specializations over time. Yet the teaching remains the same.

[muttaqi]

Jonathan
This re-post of Andrew's original article/blog doesn't really address differences in physical expressions of the art. Any variations based upon body types would be a different subject matter.

He brings up some interesting points which would be unfair to dismiss so casually just because he is not the "lineage holder".

What he's saying herein is that he has hand written notes from Xie himself, stating contradictory information from what He jinbao's notes and recollection reflect.

In such a situation, can either person in the lineage really be expected to disregard what they feel to be right way ( supported by notes of some sort on either side of the disagreement). At one point does someone disregard their own experience and or 'evidence' in their hands for the sake of politics, protocol etc.

Perhaps at the end of the day - neither view is right. There's an assumption sometimes that these arts have always been set in stone. My experience in the realm of Baguazhang in China was that some things, although commonly presented as gospel, were actually subject to change, adaptation, refinement etc - as well as concealment, or forgetfulness.

It's entirely possible that different information was given out at different times...

[XinKuzi]

Perhaps at the end of the day - neither view is right. There's an assumption sometimes that these arts have always been set in stone. My experience in the realm of Baguazhang in China was that some things, although commonly presented as gospel, were actually subject to change, adaptation, refinement etc - as well as concealment, or forgetfulness.

It's entirely possible that different information was given out at different times...

+1

[GrahamB]

That article could have been shortened down to its key phrase - "It doesn't matter."

[jonathan.bluestein]

Pardon hodmeist... My post was before I had actually read the article, not realizing your comment was directly related to its contents.

Here's my summary of Andrew's article:

- Hi I'm Andrew, and I know best about Yin style Bagua and Xie Peiqi.

- Though other people think they know best, I know better.

- Many of those who think they know best, know on the basis of the words uttered by a drunk man (which they got drunk on purpose cause he wouldn't let them know best like he did with me).

- He Jinbao is wrong and knows less (and was also too young to understand/influence when others got our master drunk).

- It all doesn't matter because He Jinbao is such a great martial artist, but I still know better than him, and I don't mind telling everyone publicly that he is wrong and I am right, even though I am his gongfu brother =\


Now... I've seen most of Andrew's online lectures and enjoyed them all. I don't doubt he is a knowledgeable person, or that he got to have real learning and an honest relationship with Dr. Xie. But frankly, I don't like that the purpose of this article was to glorify his own knowledge by saying someone else of his gongfu family is wrong. If he says that "it doesn't matter", then why the article?... Apparently, for self-promotion.

[muttaqi]

I think it's important to remember, that Andrew didn't post his comments on RSF, they exist within his own site as an explanation as to why his material is codified in a slightly different way - and from his own explanation, doing so after receiving numerous questions as to why the difference - where he also mentions at least one public question being phrased more as an assumption. Perhaps he got tired of being viewed as in error, and his material incorrect - and wanted to back up his position. If so, that's not quite the same as self promotion. Or not. I don't know the man. Nor am I a Yin Style Bagua practitioner. But I can say that some of the things he talks about we're not unknown at that time in Beijing - nor isolated to that lineage. So perhaps he just felt the need to clear the air in his own defense.

Both He Jinbao and Andrew Nugent-head have dedicated a large portion of their lives to preserve this line of Yin Style Baguazhang, and despite any uncomfortability which may arise from this - I think at the end of the day - although we could have done without the peripheral information regarding drinking etc - the understanding that there are legitimate variations in their curriculum, can only serve the best interests of later generations who will be learning this art.

[GrahamB]

Is this the same yin style as Sifu he jin Han? It seems to look very different.....

[jonathan.bluestein]

Graham, you're opening a new Game of Thrones with that one... Don't go down that path

[blank]

To discuss/compare He Jinbao"'s and Andrew Nugent Head's bagua "curriculum" in terms of legitimacy -- or anything else for that matter -- is absurd.
It's like analyzing the value of meat vs saltines. They're both food, I guess.

[aamc]

Can't all the variations be correct ?

What's to have stopped Xie Peiqi saying it was one way, one time and another at a different time, at the time both of those answers might have been correct. Hell, Bagua is the art of change...

[Lincoln]

I think that this is a good example of how different people interpret different information. Even in our modern time with recording devices in everyone's pockets and computers to share all of the information with we still come up with discrepancies? If these things can happen now just think of all of the other times it has happened in the past with EVERY other source of knowledge that is held precious? What does that leave us with now, is it more refined or more diluted? Can we trust ANY of it to be pure?

[D_Glenn]

I had previously seen the clips Andrew posted on Vimeo quite some time ago and I'd just thought it was a mistake in the editing and forgot about it.

I was a little reluctant to post anything on this topic as He Jinbao still hasn't officially started teaching the Kan trigram 蛇 'She' (Snake system) or the Kun trigram 麟 'Lín' (Unicorn system), but he has been demonstrating them both at the seminars for the last 10 years, and a lot of individuals have them in parts, including myself.

Also, He Jinbao, interviewed by Richard Miller, had published an article about the 8 Animals systems and their 8 attacking methods/capabilities (能 Néng) back in the April 2002 edition of "Tai Chi" magazine and was still studying under Dr. Xie and Xie would have approved everything that appeared in this article as it wasn't until October of 2003 that Dr. Xie passed away unexpectedly. So this wasn't just He Jinbao's own invention.

So I think it might be better to just post this since the information is already out there anyway, and I think it might help to clear some issues up.

~ http://www.yinstylebaguazhang.com/artic ... zhang.html From the April 2002 edition of "Tai Chi" magazine
The kan trigram snake system is referred to as the flowing or moving with the force palm. “It is a winding kind of force,” says He, “With many techniques employing hidden hands. The snake’s eight strikes are: shoulder, elbow, knee, hip, shooting, winding, holding, grasping. This animal is characterized by a smooth and flowing quality, with many of its strikes aimed at the opponents vital points.

The kun trigram unicorn system is designated as the reversing the body palm. Being antithetical to the Lion, the Unicorn is pure yin. The art’s literature defines the Unicorn as, “Top-bottom, internally-externally smooth and flowing.”

The Unicorn’s eight strikes are comprised of, sticking, needing, soft, following, hip, striking, chopping, cutting. It issues force by employing all joints to produce a kind of a flexible, snapping power. He Jinbao says the Unicorn is, “Soft, yet strong.You can use the wrist or elbow to put out force, perhaps rotating or transforming the opponent’s force. Because it is very relaxed and loose you can be very fast with the techniques. There is a shooting like quality to the strikes.”

~ http://www.yinstylebaguazhang.com/intro ... style.html The monkey system emphasizes leg and kicking methods over all else, the other animals all emphasize hand techniques. The lion system is vigorous and fierce. The strength is straight and its force violent. Its techniques are used in interlocked fashion. Both arms extend out, resembling a lion opening his mouth to roar. It has the presence of the king of the beasts. In the unicorn system, the arms twist and the body turns. When it meets strength, it might walk, change, or turn. It spins like a top on a sheet of ice. It has countless changes in the midst of whirling and turning around and emphasizes moving with the opponent’s force. The dragon system has fast attacks and well-knit defenses. Its methods are very refined and detailed and are fast like a bolt of lightning. The phoenix system uses a whipping strength, with the arm wheeling around at the shoulder. The hands are swift like the wind. It can take control of the enemy in the wink of an eye. The snake system has no fixed stepping pattern. It uses a constricting binding strength and coiling around methods to choke the opponent. The rooster system attacks in the midst of dodging out of the way. It has a stomping crashing strength that is hard yet crisp, like being scorched by flame. The bear system uses the back to strike; its strength is dangerous in close quarters. In the midst of a losing situation, it lures the opponent in to snatch victory from defeat. The kicks and leg methods of the monkey system are contained in the hand techniques. It uses interlocked leg techniques with a straight on and reversing strength to prevent the opponent from attack or defense. Each animal system uses a different part of the body to emit force. Lion uses the waist; dragon uses the feet; phoenix uses the shoulder; rooster uses the elbow; bear uses the back; monkey uses the legs; snake can employ any part of the body; unicorn uses the waist to remove the opponent’s force. Yin style bagua weapons originate from the palm practices of the eight animal systems. They are dashing, energetic, intelligent and come in all variety of shapes and sizes.

The order of the Trigrams in the Martial side of Baguazhang follows the Post-Heaven Bagua and starts in the Northeast with the Qian Trigram and the most basic strike of 削 1- Xiāo (Sweeping); then after going all the way around the Bagua, one ends with the attacking method from the Dui Trigram called 頓 64- Dun (Finishing meaning means to finish, end, stop, take a bow) and represents the 'finishing move' done against the opponent and the last technique of this style of Baguazhang.

The Qián Guà or Heaven Trigram is represented by the Lion 獅 (shī) and is the pure Yang trigram being the strongest and fiercest of the animals. It is also known as the father of the trigrams. The power or energy of the Qian trigram is Interlocking. Meaning the smooth transition of one strike into the next. The first strike if it fails has set up the next strike which continues in constant succession until a firm strike is landed. The Lion likes to force through an opponent, without retreat, interlocking helps to accomplish that. The Qian trigram having three solid Yang lines means that strength and solidity must be maintained when practicing the lion system. Since they are all Yang lines the twelve joints, three sections of the torso, the mind/ body/ heart must be kept solid, unbroken, and connected throughout the techniques and postures in the Lion System. The principle that the Lion contributes to Yin Style Bagua is that the mind (intention, eyes), the hands, and the feet all arrive at the same time when executing techniques.

The Lion system is the all Yang trigram, its power is hard and obvious, it has horizontal and vertical strength, it turns and moves in a circle but attacks with the corners of the square. It focuses on the power of the waist and hence develops the Belt Meridan. The Opening strike is the most important waist strike. The eight strikes of the Lion system are:

削 1- Xiāo (Sweeping) Is like a small knife used to skin or peel something, it goes along the surface and doesn't cut directly in like the 'Chopping' strike.
碴 2- Chá (Cutting) Means to cut; like with a piece of broken glass. This strike contains the basics of point striking and the small circular motions aid in the effectiveness of the strike even if the points are not directly hit.
劈 3- Pī (Chopping) Means to split, chop, or cleave like an axe, embedding into the object.
掛 4- Guà (Hooking) Means to hook or hang on a hook.
振 5- Zhèn (Shocking) Means to shake or shock, a quick jolt.
挡 6- Dǎng (Blocking) Means to keep off; ward off; block; get in the way of.
擒 7- Qín (Seizing) Means to capture; catch; seize.
拿 8- Ná (Grasping) Means to hold; take; seize; capture; have a firm grasp of.

In the Lion system one first learns the basics of Qin and Na (Seizing and Grasping) and then Kan Trigram Snake continues on into the advanced levels of Qinna, adding in more joint locks and pressing of points. These are highly advanced skills and require a lot of experience in just regular fighting and brawling so it's typically just skipped over, and one will move onto the Gen Trigram Bear system to learn it's 'Duan' Short Power aka 'Cun Jin'; or move onto the Zhen Trigram to learn it's fast throwing of 'Dai and Ling' (Carrying and Leading), it's 'Chang' (long, continuous) power used to make throwing more effective, and it's arsenal of strikes that aid the throwing. Then the Xun Trigram Phoenix which is basically the opposite of the Dragon and could be thought of as the counter-moves to the Dragon...and so on.

But back to the Snake:

坎卦蛇形学

坎卦者，水之象也；顺势掌者，拳之式也。坎者陷也，坎得乾之中阳，阳陷阴中，阳入而生潮，有坎中满之象，故居正北水旺之方。其于物也，则为蛇形，其物最毒，其性最玲珑，最活泼者也。有拨草之能。以拳式之用言，则有白蛇吐信之法，有双头蛇缠身之巧；以拳之形式言，谓之顺势掌，此拳外柔顺，而内刚健，有丹田气足之形，内外如水曲曲顺流，无隙而不入，故取象为坎卦。其拳顺，则丹田之气足，丹田气足，则道心生，道心生则心中阴火消灭，而无头眩目晕之患矣；其拳谬，则肾水虚弱，心火不能下降，头晕眼黑必不免矣。

按此拳有点穴之法，式中有单指按点之术，此式单指按点之穴处在两腋窝。点法之意，如同禽鸟两翅窝之穴坑，两指一摄，顷刻而亡。不独此穴为然，凡诸穴能致人死者，皆当慎用，如心口，小腹，脐门，耳后，脑海，嗓喉，后脊背，两肾腰，谷道，两手脉窝数穴以及双指点，单指点，肘点，膝点，足点，掌印点，斫点，勿论如何点法，轻者可以伤身，重者可以致命。故点穴之法不可专用，专用必损阴德。谚云：己不用毒于人，人亦不用毒于我。所谓中找中，和找和，天理循环之数，是此意也。

My Translation:
{The study of the Kan Trigram Snake Form

The Kan trigram is symbolized by water. Its martial tactic is 'flowing with the momentum'. Kan means to be 'sunk in'. It gains the 'yang' from the 'qian' trigram which is held inside, sunk in the middle of 'yin', which causes the tides to rise and why kan is 'full' in the middle. Kan resides in the north where water flourishes. When looked at as a creature it has the appearance of the Snake form. This creature is the most poisionous, cunning, and malicious of the animals. It has the ability to part and move through the grass. In its martial skills it uses the technique of the 'white snake spits the truth' and the posture and skill of the 'double headed snake winds around the body'. When speaking of its martial strategy it is the 'flowing with the momentum palm'. The snake is soft and flowing on the outside and hard and strong on the inside. The 'dantian' needs to be kept full. The inside and outside should be like water following along and flowing, leaving no gaps or spaces that it can't enter. Its form is like the lines of the 'kan' trigram. In practicing the fists correctly the 'dantian' must be kept full, if the dantian is full the path to the heart will develop, as the heart grows the 'yin fire' will be extinguished from the 'xin zhong'(the heart's center), and the vision will be clear and there will be no worry of dizziness. If the fists are practiced incorrectly the water in the kidneys will be empty and weak, the heart fire will not decrease causing dizziness and poor vision.

The snake uses the method of pressing on pressure points. Using the technique of one finger to press on single points. It can press cavities/ points located in the armpit of the opponent. The idea of using the method of pressing points is like finding a bird in its nest and holding its wings so its trapped. The two fingers acting as one causing a quick death. Not only just the points in the armpit are used, there are various other points that can cause death, so in all cases caution should be used, such as around the opening to the heart, solar plexus, below the navel, behind the ear, the temple, the throat/ larnyx, behind the back, the spine, the two kidneys. Both hands can press on arteries as well as pressing points. Each single finger can press points, the elbow on a point, the knee hits points, the toes press points, the palm seals off points and can cut off flow, do not underestimate the theory of point striking, used recklessly it can seriously injure the body and cause permanent damage or death. The method of point striking should not be the only method that is used, using only this method will certainly damage and darken any virtue or goodness you possess. A classic proverb says: "You can poison a man but it will only make other people seek to poison you in return." Search out the place where your center blends and moves in harmony with the opponents, flowing and linking is the meaning of the snake.}

The Kǎn Guà is represented by the snake 蛇 (shé). It's fighting style can emulate a river whose energy flows around whatever obstructs its path. This energy is called moving with the force. It is the middle son and doesn't like to mess with the striking and typical methods of the other systems. It gets in close, coiling, striking and grasping points. The Kan trigram has two broken or Yin lines, one on the top and bottom, which are representative of the wrist and shoulder joints, this becomes evident in the coiling and snake like movements of the Snake System. Reacting to what the opponent wants to do and moving with them is the energy of the snake called 顺势掌 Shùn Shì Zhǎng (Moving with [the opponent's] Force Palm). The principle of the Kan trigram is that the solid line in the middle means that the Dantian must always be kept solid and full. The eight strikes of the Snake system are:

肩 1- Jiān (Shoulder) This character - shoulder; take on; undertake; bear.
肘 2- Zhǒu (Elbow)
膝 3- Xī (Knee)
胯 4- Kuà (Hip)
探 5- Tàn (Shooting) This character means to try to find out; probe; explore; sound; scout; spy;
握 6- Wò (Holding) This character means to hold; grasp.
刁 7- Diāo (Entrapping) This character means tricky; artful; sly;
拿 8- Ná (Grasping) This character means to hold; take; seize; capture; have a firm grasp of; be able to do;in a difficult position.

All the attacks in the snake system are about ways to get a Qin Na as it's the middle son and having been in the middle it's whole life it no longer likes to brawl, it just wants to lock up the opponent and finish them, (choke them out). The Shoulder, Elbow, Knee, and Hip not only just represent ways to use those parts of your own body to attack, but more so contain all the joint locking techniques used to attack those joints on your opponent's body. The next three methods are more like strategies used to set up and control the opponent, and the last one, Na, is where all the point pressing and knowledge of vulnerable points and areas on the opponent's body are.

Dr. Xie had demonstrated some Snake applications on me back in 1999 which used Shooting, Na, Diao, Holding, and a Shoulder strike and Shooting to finish me off, all done in one smooth application. Even got a lesson on how Dian Xue works. (Thanks goes to Kurt Wong for translating what Xie was saying.)


****************
Going all the way around the Post-Heaven Bagua from Qian, Kan, Gen, Zhen, Xun, to Li one has been only using the 波浪勁 Bo Lang Jin (Crashing Wave Power) of the spine and Dantian to 發力 Fa Li / 發勁 Fa jin (Issue, Emit Power) in those animal systems, and it's in the Kun Trigram Unicorn system that one then learns how to use 翻浪劲 Fan Lang Jin (Returning Wave Power) of the spine, where energy and movement quickly return to one's own Dantian and is fundamental to using 粘 Zhan (Sticking) on the opponent (Xin-Yi Quan people may understand how this feels. )

One can then go back through all the other attacking capabilities and methods of the other animals and have a whole new way of employing them as they can use 波浪勁 Bo Lang Jin, then immediately use 翻浪劲 Fan Lang Jin, and so on. It's having not only the forward, or normal attack, but also being able to 'Reverse' it ( 返 Fǎn).

The Unicorn (麒麟 Qílín) represents both the male and female of the species and since the Kun Trigram embodies Pure Yin (feminine) we only use the character 麟 Lín which represents the female of the species. Commonly translated now as Unicorn, although a more apt translation might be the Western Griffin (Gryphon) or Chimaera (Chimera) as the animal chosen to represent the Kun Trigram is really a combination of the the other animals and their techniques only refined to the point that power can be manifested in one part of the body or just one segment of a limb. It uses all the joints of the body for striking. It will follow and match the opponent until the right opportunity to reverse the direction and devastate the opponent. It can deliver strikes through many of the different parts of the body. While the Lion system is taught to the young and vibrant to develop/ 'Stoke the Yang Fire', the Unicorn is learned later in life and is the result of the years of refinement and internalization of the other systems. Its the steel that has been forged in the Yang fire: the Yin Amulet. Its fundamental tactic is called 返身掌 Fǎn Shēn Zhǎng (Returning [to one's own] Body Palm. The principle of the Kun trigram is that all the joints in the body must be kept flowing and open. It's eight attacking methods are:

粘 1- Zhan (Sticking) Means to make the opponent stick to yourself.
黏 2- Nian (Adhering) Means to stick to the opponent.
綿 3- mián (Soft) This character means to be continuous; soft
隨 4- suí (Following) This character means to to follow; to comply with; to allow;
胯 5- Kua (Hip) This character means the hip, pelvis, root of the legs.
打 6- Da3 (Striking) This character means to strike, hit, break, fight, shooting, to tie up.
劈 7- Pī (Chopping) This character means to split, chop, or cleave.
碴 8- Chá (Stabbing/ Cutting) This character means to cut; like with a piece of broken glass.

*************

The Kicking (Ti) techniques are introduced in the Lion as 'Stomping' (踹 Chuai) as there's Ti, Da, Na, and Shuai (Kicking, Striking, Grappling, and Throwing) in all of the whole Baguazhang system. Leg Coiling methods (just Tui) are in the Snake, and more kicks are added in from the Dragon as it uses a lot of the 'Bai' (擺) open step which is fundamental for the back leg to kick.

But after one learns the Unicorn's method of 翻浪劲 Fan Lang Jin (Returning Wave Power) they can issue force into all the kicking methods which are found inside the Dui Trigram Monkey System, also called the 'Lian Huan Tui' or 'Interlocking Leg'. As all eight of it's attacking methods are kicks and other leg attacking methods, like using the Hip to smash directly into or down onto the opponent, like a 'hip check', or the 'Hip' also contains the knee strikes as one is lifting up their knee from the hip:

屈 1- Qu (Bending) This character means to bend, flex.
踹 2- Chuai (Stomping) This character means to trample, stomp, crush.
崩 3- Beng (Splitting) This character means to rupture, split apart, collapse.
胯 4- Kua (Hip) This character means the hip, pelvis, root of the legs.
劈 5- Pi (Chopping) This character means to split, chop, or cleave.
擺 6- Bai (Swinging) This character means to swing, sway like a pendulum
結 7- Jie (Intercepting) This character means to connect, stop, join, intercept.
頓 8- Dun (Finishing) This character means to finish, end, stop, bow.

****************

In the 64 Qinna Attacking methods video of Dr. Xie, he is basically demonstrating the 'Da, Na, and Shuai' (strike, grasp, throw) applications for each of the 64 Zhan Zhuang postures that use the same name as the 64 attacking methods from the eight animals.

Here's the Kan Trigram Snake's Zhan Zhuang applications video clip using Shoulder, Elbow, Knee, Hip, Shooting, Gripping, Clasping, and Grasping methods:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cMwgzgPFBc



and here's the Unicorn's Sticking, Sticky (Adhering), Soft, Following, Hip, Attacking/Strike, Chopping, and Stabbing methods:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcPVAoc52Wo





.

[Enjinno9]

Can't all the variations be correct ?

What's to have stopped Xie Peiqi saying it was one way, one time and another at a different time, at the time both of those answers might have been correct. Hell, Bagua is the art of change...

+1, and another +1 for muttaqi's last post.

My interpretation of Andrew's article is to some serious degree influenced by my understanding of his practices and attitude towards Chinese medicine and martial arts. He's been my TCM doctor for two years, and I've observed in him the kind of dedication to the art which demands both humility and limited patience with dilettantism and egoism -- behaviors that have corrupted so much CMA over here.

The post is, in its original context, a response to a YouTube comment. That alone should instruct the reader to limit his or her expectations. I don't agree with Jonathan's paraphrase because I think it misconstrues the civility the author maintains throughout; I also know, from discussions with Andrew himself, that he considers He Jinbao to be the best practitioner of martial bagua out there. I do think that the digression about students stealing secrets with alcohol was ultimately unnecessary, but, if we understand it as part of a committed student's elegy for a beloved teacher, also understandable.

Canaan

[D_Glenn]

Can't all the variations be correct ?

What's to have stopped Xie Peiqi saying it was one way, one time and another at a different time, at the time both of those answers might have been correct. Hell, Bagua is the art of change...

+1, and another +1 for muttaqi's last post.

My interpretation of Andrew's article is to some serious degree influenced by my understanding of his practices and attitude towards Chinese medicine and martial arts. He's been my TCM doctor for two years, and I've observed in him the kind of dedication to the art which demands both humility and limited patience with dilettantism and egoism -- behaviors that have corrupted so much CMA over here.

The post is, in its original context, a response to a YouTube comment. That alone should instruct the reader to limit his or her expectations. I don't agree with Jonathan's paraphrase because I think it misconstrues the civility the author maintains throughout; I also know, from discussions with Andrew himself, that he considers He Jinbao to be the best practitioner of martial bagua out there. I do think that the digression about students stealing secrets with alcohol was ultimately unnecessary, but, if we understand it as part of a committed student's elegy for a beloved teacher, also understandable.

Canaan

He Jinbao and Dr. Xie were actually working on filming the Kan Trigram Snake System before Dr. Xie passed away. At his age Xie wanted to film some applications (qin na) that he could actually demonstrate. After Dr. Xie died, then a few years later, He Jinbao just made the Qin Na dvd which is the end of the Qian Trigram and goes into the Kan Trigram Snake applications to preserve that information that he'd learned.

As I said above the Kan Trigram Snake is usually just skipped over but in order to really apply the Kun Trigram Lin/ Unicorn System you really need a thorough understanding of Qin & Na, or more importantly how to counter it, which you naturally learn by applying it.

The Kun Trigram Unicorn is the 'Fan Shen Zhang' (Reversing the Body Tactic) and is one of the eight tactics that's borrowed by other animal systems, and as you can see in those other animal systems that have been filmed, the 'Fan Shen Zhang' forms are where your body is very close to the opponent's body, it's operating within the closest range, when talking about fighting distances. So it needs the Qin Na knowledge from the Snake.

The Kun Trigram Unicorn is more just conceptual ideas but it also has it's own body movements and distinct ways of moving the body, which are the opposite of the Qian Trigram Lion, and instead of working in the horizontal plane, it's movements are moving more in the vertical plane. But it's eight methods are just concepts, ideas (Yinian). So once they're learned they can be applied to all the other animal systems. And since the Snake and Unicorn are reliant upon one another these concepts would first be applied to the Qin Na of the Snake. Especially since the Snake system doesn't like to 'Fa'/ Issue power using 'Bolang Jin' (Movement of the spine going outward) but would make use the 'Torso Method' learned in the Unicorn System of 'Fanlang Jin' (Reversing Wave movement) where it's similar to the quick, jolting movement of a 'Fa' but everything is coming back towards your own Dantian. So ideally they'd both be learned at the same time.

The Snake's eight methods can also be looked at as concepts and intermixed into the other animal systems.

And Dr. Xie and He Jinbao aren't really sticklers about conceptual things (Yinian). So yes both are correct but only for someone who's put the time into learning both of them. For the student it's important to ingrain things physically before they can become ideas/ concepts.


Liu Baozhen and the resultant Yin Yang Ba Pan Zhang school were practicing the Kun Trigram Unicorn system, which Liu Baozhen had either learned from Dong Haichuan or later from Fan Zhiyong, who had taken the alias of Li Zhenqing while he was hiding out in Gu’an County, Hebei Province with Liu Baozhen. They turn the circle with the 'Unicorn holds out the Book' signature posture and use the thick wooden, double-tipped spear of Baguazhang. Which follows the foundational theory of Baguazhang that - If the weapon is hard, rigid, then the body must be soft and flexible in order to wield it (Pure Yin Kun Trigram Unicorn); but if the weapon is soft and flexible (the super flexible Double-tipped Snake Spear used in the Lion system) then the body must be hard and rigid in order to wield it (Pure Yang Qian Trigram).

So there are certain fundamental things that need to be used a certain way in order to first learn them, but since we're mainly talking about empty-hand fighting, they don't have to be confined to the fundamentals from which they came, since, obviously, the unchangeable weapon is not in your hands.


In order to not lend any help to the Liu Baozhen people, mainly Ren Zhicheng, Men Baozhen had intentionally switched the two around in his book. And if people later came to him and said something to him about it, he'd know that their information, coming from a different lineage from Dong Haichuan, was correct.



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