Wu Gongyi vs. Chen Kefu

[GrahamB]

Face it Ed. You're his bitch.

[BruceP]

I like Chen's Keds. Used to wear em when I was little.

[Chris McKinley]

I love the delicious ineptitude of everything about this fight, especially the Sunday afternoon Kung Fu Theatre pig bladder slaps that have been added in for sound effects. White Eyebrow hair-whip guy would be proud. I still maintain that my untrained sister would kick the girlie shit out of either of these guys on a bad day.

This whole video should be Photoshop titled: "CMA Hubris -- FAIL!"

[cdobe]

I love the delicious ineptitude of everything about this fight, especially the Sunday afternoon Kung Fu Theatre pig bladder slaps that have been added in for sound effects. White Eyebrow hair-whip guy would be proud. I still maintain that my untrained sister would kick the girlie shit out of either of these guys on a bad day.

This whole video should be Photoshop titled: "CMA Hubris -- FAIL!"

You would pressure point ko both of them, I guess ?

[Chris McKinley]

Nah, I'd just void every horrible half-ass nancy slap they threw at me while occasionally pimp-slapping 'em for keeping their arms down at their sides and leading with their faces like angry little tantrum throwers. Maybe provide the occasional admonition that they should get their ass out on the corner and earn my money, but only if they let me wear a lapel mic.

[edededed]

Face it Ed. You're his bitch.

Heeey, take that back!

[Doc Stier]

I love the delicious ineptitude of everything about this fight....! I still maintain that my untrained sister would kick the girlie shit out of either of these guys on a bad day.

Agreed. With all due respect to both fighters, I've seen better fist fights between drunken brawlers at the local tavern on a Friday or Saturday night, and also between tough street chicks on the subway station platform while waiting for the train to arrive.

These two fighters look like they never had any martial art training whatsoever. Many reasons have been submitted through the years since this bout took place as to why they both appeared to be so incompetent and ineffective as fighters, but the fact remains that they both looked incredibly bad. Apparently, form and function were totally segregated entities for both of these guys.

Unfortunately for them, the camera doesn't lie, and major loss of face was the end result for both men, IMO.

Doc

[mixjourneyman]

There are a few local martial arts teachers around where I live that claim that this is the closest to actual fighting that is available on video. These are the same people that claim that sport fighting is ineffective in any context out of the ring and that their skills are too deadly to show applications or practice free sparring

[cdobe]

I love the delicious ineptitude of everything about this fight....! I still maintain that my untrained sister would kick the girlie shit out of either of these guys on a bad day.

Agreed. With all due respect to both fighters, I've seen better fist fights between drunken brawlers at the local tavern on a Friday or Saturday night, and also between tough street chicks on the subway station platform while waiting for the train to arrive.

These two fighters look like they never had any martial art training whatsoever. Many reasons have been submitted through the years since this bout took place as to why they both appeared to be so incompetent and ineffective as fighters, but the fact remains that they both looked incredibly bad. Apparently, form and function were totally segregated entities for both of these guys.

Unfortunately for them, the camera doesn't lie, and major loss of face was the end result for both men, IMO.

Doc

Doc,
did you take the restrictive ruleset into account (no grappling) ? And the big stress that such a public event causes ? Especially for a Chinese who could loose his face in front of so many eyes.
I think that most people who comment about the fight on the internet have a certain picture in mind of how an actual fight with their art of choice looks like (most of them unrealistic). If they don't get to see something that conforms to this image they talk badly about it, thinking that their master would have gloriously defeated both of them.
I for one think that if you take all circumstances into account it is not that bad. You just cannot judge it by the standards of modern day boxing. You can at least say that both of them had a pair (Wouldn't you Americans put it this way ).

CD

[GrahamB]

Personally I'm still waiting for you to post a vid of you doing something better than that fight Doc...

In fact, can anybody here post any vid of somebody from their art fighting competitively bare-knuckle that looks better than that? (Not saying it's not out there, I'm just not sure I can think of any.... )

[GrahamB]

Then again, there is always the man now known simply as legend....

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JXix0ygCV ... re=related

[Chris McKinley]

cdobe,

I must carefully point out that I did not claim that my master would have gloriously defeated both of them, since I don't live in a kung fu movie and don't have a "master". To be fair and precise, I said that my untrained sister could have. It's interesting from a psychology point of view how far people will go in defending such an obvious display of zero combat skill in order to avoid cognitive dissonance and to perpetuate their romantic notions of the mystical effectiveness of Chinese Martial Arts in general. There's allowing for slight, mitigating circumstances, and then there's flat out intellectual dishonesty. Defending that clip is so far gone to the latter that it no longer bears serious discussion.

As to Graham's challenge to Doc Stier, it's a logical fallacy to submit the idea that A) if real "bare-knuckle" combat skill exists out there, that B) there ought to be plenty of available video of it just because we're in the age of Youtube. Thankfully, Graham explicitly admits as much in his post. Some of the scariest personal combat guys I've ever known will never be seen on publicly available video doing anything but behaving nicely with family and friends.

[GrahamB]

Well there's 2 things there. First I'd just like to see Doc do something - most of the people who talk a lot on here I've seen do something on video.

Secondly, it's interesting that people laugh at that clip of Wu, yet, fail to point to anything better with the same rules and bare-knuckle, surely there must be something better out there...? But there isn't is there... which makes me think twice about it and not want to join in with the crowd and slag the clip off for not looking like some great amazing kung fu movie fight. First time I saw it I thought it just looked crap, but now what it looks like to me is real (even though, obviously it's not the real real because there are rules). And real doesn't look pretty. It never will.

Cut Wu Gongyi and Chen Kefu some slack I say - they had the balls to stand up and be counted. Nobody slags of people who compete in modern day MMA even if they lose badly - everyone always goes 'hey at least they had the balls to get in the ring - cut them some slack' - but when it's some old Chinese guys on flickery b&w film it's somehow different? Is there something cultural going on in our attitude to them? Are we too blind to see?

Just some questions to think about before you put your time travelling little kid sister in the ring with the old head of Wu style Chris Personally I don't think she'd have done well against Wu when it came down to it.

Peace,
G

[Miro]

I find fascinating how people are coming here just to chat and kill their time, talking and arguing without thinking and listening to opposite views and opinions, how they talk without knowing what they are talking about... This fight was originally meant as serious fight (with possible death-outcome) but too many people get concerned, Catholic Church and Governor of Macao wanted to prevent that fight, however, the things were already out of hands of both parties, people were invited, tickets sold and so on... Therefore this fight changed, it was not fight between two martial artists, it was charity. Yes, charity, theatre. Moreover, unwritten rules also helped that fighters did not fight. Go and do your homework, please, find background and explanation of this fight, you will understand it was not fight at all.

Miro

[Chris McKinley]

She'd'a trounced 'em, since she's more small frame Yang anyway.

The joy we take in lampooning such a display of teh horrible is not that it's a case of two regular Chinese Joe's getting up there and manning up, even though they aren't combat experts. Instead, these are self-professed "masters" of martial arts, or at the very least, their jockriders put them out there as such. It's not that it's so bad when two unskilled guys get up there and show that they don't have anything but at least put it out there. What's bad is that these guys aren't claiming to be nothing special; they're being billed as masters, heads of whole styles, etc. IOW, it's not that they suck, it's that they put it out there that their skill is so mysteriously good that it's beyond our understanding when it's really a steaming pile of funneh. We're laughing at the cultural hubris of Chinese Martial Arts getting called out. They have been judged, and they have been found wanting. I imagine it's not too dissimilar to the sentiment present the first time a Gracie lost an MMA match.