CMA lack of impact in the Western World

[Ray]

Chris,
Understood, you're right. This elephant or horse is well beaten, but work is slow and we surf and post. Take care. Ray

[JessOBrien]

I've never traveled in Asia much, but it seems to me there are a lot more Asian martial arts schools in the USA than there are western fight sports schools in Asia. That may be changing. The topic ought to be reversed, why has western boxing had so little impact on China?

-Jess O

[Chris McKinley]

Good point, Jess. I guess it all depends on where that impact is being made, eh? MMA may be replacing TKD as the every-street-corner thing in this country and Bhah-zeel, but elsewhere it's still one of many.

[I am...]

I would say that Muay Thai, in Thailand, and some of the stuff practiced in Cambodia, and Myanmar, (I can't speak for Laos), is very much in line with CMA, or at least some of the southern stuff. They get into limb conditioning, use some very old training methods, alongside the modern stuff, and train in the old "you live at the camp as a kid" way. ALL martial arts should be using training methods that work, where they come from is irrelevant if they map onto your skill set, in my book at least.

One of the biggest things I have observed being in the way of CMA being taken seriously is Chinese culture itself, or at least as it is now. Getting hit in the face, or having a black eye is a huge loss of face, life is busy and much more competitive due to the larger population (sort of like how NYC can be from what I have seen, x2), and the stuff that takes a long time to develop is just not practiced to fruition that often by many people, regardless of where it is taught. Lam Sai Wing talks about piercing an opponents heart through the armpit with his fingers, and other guys from before and around his time were known for being able to put their hands into a cows stomach with a blow. There is a record of an old Pankration fighter being disemboweled by another fighter using only his hand as well. Where are those guys now? The methods to develop those things are still around, although rare, but may be even more impractical now than they were then (not being able to write easily or type for starters). CMA was at its best when it was likely a much more low class thing. That is what likely got in the way. Muay Thai is still largely seen as "lower class" in Thailand in present day as well, and some Thais think its more common for Farangs to learn it than Thais, by choice at least.

[Andy_S]

Graham:

If you had read my first post (sigh) you would have noticed that I said CMA's main influence has been cutlural.

Chris:

I broadly agree, if we are talking only combat effectiveness. But there is more to CMA. Taiji is taugth across Asia as a form of relaxed exercise for the health promotion of senior citiezens, giving them a better quality of life with lower healthcare costs. CMA stance training is, I would suggest, an excellent adjunct to much Western sport training, esp in sports such as soccer and basketball, where there are so many lower body injuries. (The long term gradual strengthening aspects of stance training are just not well known.) I would add that a re-emphasis on stance training would benefit more modern MA; A friend of mine, a very senior and successful TKD competitor, had to give it up due to leg injuries; I beleive if he had done stance training, he would have strengtheen his legs connective tissues in a moer effetive way than he did.

And so on and so on. Speaknig very, very generally, I would say that CMA can be practiced, with beneficial results, by those more senior in years, compared to most (not all, I am speaknig very generally here...) sporting activities.

Jess:

Right now, MMA is huge in Japan and Korea - in Korea, you can see MMA on TV any night of the week, but try seeing TKD on TV! I would argue that boxing had a tremendous impact on CMA - it is just not widely acknowledged. Bagwork, roadwork, padwork, etc, etc...moreover, it is my understanding that modern sanda as we know it grew out of China's early entry into (modern era) Olympic boxing.

[edededed]

Andy:

Well, yeah, boxing (and Thai boxing and so on) affected sanda, but sanda is new anyway; most traditional arts have been minimally influenced (if at all), I think.

[mixjourneyman]

Honest question: Hasn't Yiquan had some influence from boxing? They seem to throw very boxingesque punches.

[edededed]

Some lineages of yiquan have been influenced by boxing, yes (but not all).