Serious problem!

[bailewen]

My guess is that wherever you heard it was confusing it with Falungong. The closest term I can find for TM in Chinese is 超脱静坐. For the most part, nobody here has even heard of it.

Falungong was outlawed because it grew into a massive political movement and, more to the point, they started protesting things in Tiananmen square. They also like to say that it makes people crazy but I don't think that's why they outlawed it. It's got to do with politics. Authentic Catholicism is outlawed for the same reason. The pope is a political figure and the Catholic church has tremendous political influence therefore, it's not legal in China.

It's all about maintaining political power and not much more.

[WILLIE]

My guess is that wherever you heard it was confusing it with Falungong. The closest term I can find for TM in Chinese is 超脱静坐. For the most part, nobody here has even heard of it.

Falungong was outlawed because it grew into a massive political movement and, more to the point, they started protesting things in Tiananmen square. They also like to say that it makes people crazy but I don't think that's why they outlawed it. It's got to do with politics. Authentic Catholicism is outlawed for the same reason. The pope is a political figure and the Catholic church has tremendous political influence therefore, it's not legal in China.

It's all about maintaining political power and not much more.

thanks for being understanding
cheers

[Daniel]

Hey Ivan. If you want to read, I would rather recommend you start off with Bruce Frantzis´ book Opening the Energy Gates of the Body . In it he goes through the dangers that might occur with certain practices, he gives some examples, and he also talks about the general daoist view on how you safe-wire your system to minimize the risks. It´s a much easier read to start out with then Nancy Chen´s. She wrote hers as a thesis for her doctorate, and the language reflects it.

The subject has been fairly slow to move until the last few years, really. The only persons who seemed to talk about it on a wider stage was BF and Ken Cohen, even though, presumably, the good chinese teachers new about it in depth. I have done an interview with BF about his experiences when he specialized in the field as a qigong-doctor in China, but I haven´t published that yet. Many teachers I see who are "big names" rarely want to comment on it due to their fear of scaring students/scaring away the money. Many "big names" also don´t know that much about it, to be frank.

Other interesting correlations as far as it goes for me as a professional teacher, is the huge amount of qigong piancha I see among wanna-be students who has been cruising the New Age/workshop-circuit. Piancha is common there, mostly due to the fact that few people find a really skilled teacher and stay there so that their training can be built up step by step. I had a talk with herbalist Bob Flaws over his article about "Qi-disease" and the acupuncture-solutions to it, and he commented that he saw way more piancha and ZHRM where he lives now, in Boulder, than he did while being an intern in Shanghai. Not surprising, really, but maybe useful information to put out there.

All this points to why the major issue always is to spend a lot of time looking for a good teacher first. Once you find him or her, then practice. Stay there, build up your training, have respect for them. Never practice unsupervised, nor from books or DVD´s unless you are very, very stable and experienced already.

Where do you live, Ivan? Maybe someone here can recommend a good chinese medical doctor/herbalist in your city.

D.

[DeusTrismegistus]

You have gotten plenty of good advice from an eastern perspective so I am going to throw out some from a western perspective.

Read Dion Fortune's Pyschic Self Defense. Best western book on the subject out there.

I have had a minor experience where I tried my own combination of visualization and breathing and it resulted in my qi getting stuck up in my chest. The end result was body became very weak, I couldn't even hold a moderately deep stance for a couple seconds. My punches and kicks had no power, I got tired easily. I asked my teacher and he told me that my qi was stuck in my chest and asked me what I had been doing. I told him and his response was to get me to stop doing that and to start breathing as naturally as possible again.

In western occultism there are basic exercises commonly called grounding exercises. These are designed to keep your energy down. Phsyical activity is great for grounding. Cleaning is also good for banishing. So I would recommend that you go to wherever you practice qi-gong at if indoors and clean the hell out of it. Go home and clean the hell out of your house. This will help get you grounded and help in banishing. While cleaning you are not just cleaning physical dirt but feel like you are washing away any negative energy.

In western occultism there are two basic interactions with demons, obsession and possesion. Obsession is where you hear voices and are compelled to do things you don't want. Possesion is when the demon takes control of you or resides inside you. The demons enter the body through the top of the spine right at the base of the head. A western traditional protection is to make some red oil from st johns wort and put a few drops on the back of your neck. This is supposed to prevent obsession and possesion. Here is a place to buy red oil, although it may be made slightly differently than the recipe I am used to it should have the same basic function when used as I described.

[WILLIE]

the important thing is DO NOT LISTEN TO THE VOICES. never listen to them. completely ignore them. don't let them even affect you.
recite "nan mu a mi tuo fuo" if you want.

a family member of mine had these voices too at one point. at first there was no problem, until he started to listen to them. things got really bad after that. DO NOT listen to them. ASK A MONK/PRIEST/OTHER SPIRITUAL POWERHOUSE FOR HELP NOW. A good TCMD is often a powerhouse as well.

cheers

[zenman]

"qi-gong psychotic reactions. Acute, time-limited episodes characterized by dissociative, paranoid, or other psychotic or nonpsychotic symptoms that may occur after participation in the Chinese folk health-enhancing practice of qi-gong (exercise of vital energy). Especially vulnerable are persons who become overly involved in the practice. "

[Muad'dib]

From another thread I found this on Cracked.com:

http://www.cracked.com/article_15634_7- ... sters.html

Scroll down to Pazuzu.

[Andy_S]

SNIP
The demons enter the body through the top of the spine right at the base of the head. A western traditional protection is to make some red oil from st johns wort and put a few drops on the back of your neck. This is supposed to prevent obsession and possesion.
SNIP

Only on EF....

[DeusTrismegistus]

SNIP
The demons enter the body through the top of the spine right at the base of the head. A western traditional protection is to make some red oil from st johns wort and put a few drops on the back of your neck. This is supposed to prevent obsession and possesion.
SNIP

Only on EF....

Whats that supposed to mean.

[Bao]

Damn, I told myself to not write anything in this thread. "Don't feed trolls" you know. Amazingly enough, this has reached five pages allready.

If someone had this kind of trouble, he would definitively not write in a forum like this. And also he allready said that it was not related to the practice, just that it disturbed the practice. There are hundreds of better places on the internet to get advice. Why choose this place?

I suggest that if anyone write this kind of thing in the future, please erase the thread immidiately. If he really had this kind of trouble, which I can assure you he does not, he can not get anything from a forum like this. He would be forced to look to other places and you would help him to not waste valuable time posting on a forum like this.

BTW, very clever troll
. . . not . . .
Either way or the other, the guy still needs some councelling.

[Ian]

SNIP
The demons enter the body through the top of the spine right at the base of the head. A western traditional protection is to make some red oil from st johns wort and put a few drops on the back of your neck. This is supposed to prevent obsession and possesion.
SNIP

Only on EF....

Whats that supposed to mean.

I think Andy means that EF is such an amateurish forum that your erroneous diagnosis of demonic possession comes as no surprise.

I think he also was implying that it would be more correct to assume vampiric telepathy, in which case apotropaics such as a crucifix, a branch of a hawthorn plant, as well as remaining on consecrated ground would be a more fitting remedy.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Felipe Bidó]

Bao, we have had these kind of topics from time to time here. No surprise.

And you're right, this thread needs to end. If he wanted advice, he got it a long time already.

And I bet my lunch money that he will completely disregard the parts where people tell him that he needs to get help, and will follow the "I got demons" part, without even considering the other alternative. It's how these things go, usually.

Locked.