Serious problem!

[Chris Fleming]

Do you see dead people?

[Interloper]

I don't like that the voices in his head verbally abuse him during practice. Mine are pretty cool, and coach very well. If he wants, I can hire my voices out to him on a temporary basis, for a small fee. They are very good at keeping other voices (especially the voice of reason) out of my head, so they should do a good job in his head as well.

RD,
Are you sure that you didn't just forget to take out your cell-phone ear bud?

[Ben]

There is a larger issue than if your practice will effect other people in a class. There is something not right going on. Please get it checked out.

[chud]

Ivan, if I may ask...do you use any drugs at all?
Serious question, not messing with you.

[bigphatwong]

6.5

[Strange]

Often the voices in my head tell me to do bad things, but I tell them I refuse to do anything they say unless they cough up a sizable amount of cash. That usually shuts them up....although I'd prefer the cash....

arh ha ha ha ha..., rd, i can just tell that yr skill has improved by leaps and bound

[Ivan]

Ivan, if I may ask...do you use any drugs at all?
Serious question, not messing with you.

No I dont use any drugs.

[Ivan]

If there is nothing physically wrong with your brain or physiology (some diseases have psychiatric manifestations) then this is in the realm of psychosis.

I did receive a bump to the head but that was after it started.

Psychosis meaning psychological - osis basically something psychological.

Funny, asking them for money does shut them up briefly.

[Royal Dragon]

I don't like that the voices in his head verbally abuse him during practice. Mine are pretty cool, and coach very well. If he wants, I can hire my voices out to him on a temporary basis, for a small fee. They are very good at keeping other voices (especially the voice of reason) out of my head, so they should do a good job in his head as well.

RD,
Are you sure that you didn't just forget to take out your cell-phone ear bud?

Reply]
Oh CRAP!!, I was wondering where that thing was!! It's been missing for weeks!!!

[Overlord]

Hi Ivan,

1. Qi does not give you special power, everyone has it, you have it and able to move your body is by itself a miracle already . In another word, when you are healthy, you won't get extra-qi-sensation. You are just YOU!
2. Jing, the essence of life, or the life force, is taken away from you when you masterbate. In this circumstance, stolen by these voyance entities. If I take you seriously, you better take me seriously as well!
3. Try meditating in lotus position for more than 30 min, and search for your inner self (your true nature before you are born), better under the day light in the morning and after zheng zhuan or taiji practice.
4. Read Shurangama sutra and mantra, it is free for download on internet and please try find out the nature and pitfall of demonic state in cultivation.

Ask yourself what you want to achieve in qi gong practice?
The real qi-gong is to obtain immortality where the Chinese character qi is entirely different from today qi writing altogether.

Meditation in lotus position is by far the safest method of cultivation. Meditation is not sleeping, your back is well-positioned and straight, no support!! Eyes half closed!

Serious problems require serious attitudes and measures, hope this can be of help! Ask if you have more questions and we all will try to help!

[Kevin_Wallbridge]

"The mind leads the Qi" isn't the method, its the warning label.

Surely you realize that the metaphysical belief in telepathic entities is not widely held. If you expect serious answers perhaps you should minimize your references to magical thinking. You may be right, there really may be entities talking to you... but you may be wrong.

I'm wondering why you are so convinced your Qigong practice has nothing to do with it? Have you had these voices for a long time? Do you have a history of drug use, especially psychedelic drugs? Are you a member of a group or comminity where the interaction with entities is considered common?

I'm not so sure I agree with the reccomendation to seek a psychiatrist. Before you put yourself into the hands of someone who will start to prescribe things to change your brain chemistry you may just want to try some counselling. I would say go to a psychologist first. The more unique your understanding of energetic relationships and entities the more likely that your need intervention, is there a cultural component? If its part of your family culture or your social scene then pharmaceutical treatment may not be the best thing.

Maybe try a good Chinese Medicine herbalist. What is your body type like? Any excess weight? If you get a cold does your nose really run? If you get a cough is it very productive (lots of phlegm)? Perhaps you are wirey and tend to be dry, but if you get sick you try to clear your nose and it just won't move? The kind of experiences you describe are not normal for the dominant cultures of the world, you must realize this. It is suggestive of what could be described as "pathological metabolites misting the clear orifices of the heart and mind" or "phlegm bocking the heart-mind." If you came to see me in clinic wih this problem I'd tell you to stop any Qigong or meditation immediately and 化痰 clear phlegm. Then I'd refer you for counselling.

Good luck.

[lazyboxer]

I have learned from very reputable teachers as well as books.

My main concern is that if I go to classes again it could affect other students.

Ivan, something doesn't add up right here. Where are these 'reputable teachers' now when you need them? Why are you doing qigong, anyway - what do you want from it? Your troubles are either from induced psychosis from previous drug use (if you were ever a user), or from some other neurological malfunction. It is unlikely that your voices have any objective existence outside your head, although you may not want to believe it. Stop doing qigong, eat and sleep properly, go for walks in fresh air or swim, get a girlfriend (a sane one!), and if that doesn't work get professional help.

[Ron Panunto]

I would recommend that you discuss it with your dog.

[Daniel]

Anybody know what happened to the kid?

I´ve specialized a lot in how you treat energy-injuries and how you layer the training and tailor it to avoid them. In China, they use two diagnostic phrases for this: qigong piancha and zouhuo rumo, or the third, slang, qigong bing or taiji bing, "qigong-sickness" or "taiji-sickness" (like an intern saying "where did that appendix go?"). Qigong piancha roughly translates as "qigong/energy/training deviation", that is, your training has gone slightly off track, not much yet, but it´s veering away from being reasonably stable. This is where having a good teacher is the key, as they should have skills and training to see when this happens in your system and then change your training to minimize it or to stabilize you.

Zouhou rumo is full-blown, severe energy-injuries. "Fire/demons enter/go to the head", probably with very old roots from shamanic usage. Here you manifest such symptoms as psychosis, hallucinations, severe delusions, real problems with dealing with objective reality, lots of shangqi (rising energy to the head) and often really high internal speed that won´t shut down. Pressure in your head, eyes or neck and throat is not a good sign if you do qigong/meditation-practice. ZHRM is a really bad place to be in. Injuries at this level usually take a few years to build up, unless there were pre-existing problems that the training opened the door for. They often take several years of treatment and training to re-pattern back to healthy and balanced again.

Advice to Ivan:
1) No matter what your personal feelings about your training are, if you are practicing something without very qualified supervision right now, take a break for two weeks. If you find that your problems stop, your training was the reason. If you have a teacher, immediatly go and tell them about the symptoms you described here. They should actively do something about this.
2) In any case, find a good acupuncturist and herbalist with the full doctor´s degree from China. Even better if you can find one that is 60+ in age with lots of experience. Write down the phrase "zouhuo rumo" on a piece of paper and bring it along. Most chinese doctors at least know a little about what it is and how to treat it. Not all, but most.
3) Go to a psychologist as well. Most importantly the acupuncturist for a couple of sessions to let things clear up for you, but also some kind of decent therapist to check whether you have a temporary mental imbalance that can be easily halted right now. If you did have a blow to the head, get someone to check that out for you.
4) If you have the chance, tell a friend about this, and describe your problems and symptoms to them, so that you have someone to talk to about it.

If you are asking a genuine question, then these are the advice I would give. If you´re not, then this information might be of use to someone else browsing on the forum about overtraining or energy-injuries.

A unique book about this is Breathing Spaces, by Nancy Chen, which details how they treat zouhuo rumo in China these days, and how it has affected chinese health-policy since the 1990´s. A thesis originally, so the language is a bit rough, but it´s a really useful read.

D.

[Felipe Bidó]

I would recommend that you discuss it with your dog.

Oh Sam, you Dawg.

Ivan

These people giving advice to you are not kids. It's better to read and listen to their advice than to listen to your voices.

So be a man and take the advice. Please.

If you have trained with reputable teachers, go to them and ask for what to do next.