Taijiquan vs Punching and Kicking

[DeusTrismegistus]

What does your taiji practice have to practice defending against punches and kicks? What kinds of drills do you do? What skills does you taiji practice emphasize for defending against punches and kicks? Do you practice punching and kicking in your style? How does your taijiquan practice transfer your skills at defending punches and kicks to a real scenario?

[mixjourneyman]

Taiji has thousands of techniques for defending against punches and kicks.
I'm afraid you may need to be more specific in your question.
For punches, cloud hands is a classic (probably the most obvious punch defense in taiji).
For kicks, I would say that Golden cock stands on one leg is pretty good (especially for blocking round kicks).
But I think a lot of people will tell you that Taiji is not specifically technique driven, so you should be able to use almost any posture for attack or defense, depending on the situation.

[shawnsegler]

For kicks, I would say that Golden cock stands on one leg is pretty good

There's this scene in one episode of arrested development where Michael Bluth says to his brother in law Tobias (David Cross)

You know what you do? You go buy yourself a tape recorder and record yourself for a whole day. You might be surprised at some of your phrasing.

S- just sayin

[mixjourneyman]

Yeah, I know golden cock and one leg and all that stuff are full of double meanings, but thats what the postures are called.
It aint my fault, I'm just trying to bring a little light into the world is all.

[shawnsegler]

I'm just trying to bring a little light into the world is all.

Don't sell yourself shot Mix. You're not bringing a little light into the world. You bring a whole rainbow with you always!

Zing! Rimshot!

Best,

S- I only do this sort of thing to you because Ricque isn't around for me to torture anymore.

P.S. And by rimshot I mean....Zing!!!

[Josealb]

I guess that depends if the punch and the kick are done by a demon possessed person, in which case the answer would be red oil on the arms so you can yield better.

[mixjourneyman]

P.S. And by rimshot I mean....Zing!!!

And by Zing Shawn means "Hi my name is Seg's and I love Anus!!!!!"

[Chris McKinley]

mixjourneyman wrote that Taijiquan is full of thousands of techniques for handling punches and kicks. He also stated that any posture could be used for attack and defense, implying perhaps that any posture at all would be sufficient as a defense against punches and/or kicks. However, DeusTrismegistus's question still stands mostly unanswered. Here's why.

mix's response was one of pure theory and Platonic ideal. Yes, ideally, every posture should be capable of being interpreted as a defense against a punch or kick, as well as its own counteroffensive move. Having practiced since '82 with a recent two-year break, I know that I can come up with that information from any posture in the system. But the systematic analysis that lets me do that also lets me find such information in interpretive jazz dance, breakdancing, and volleyball, too. The sentiment of finding both attack and defense in each posture represents only the Platonic ideal of what Taijiquan should be striving for, not what is in day to day practice. I posit for consideration that there has never existed the practitioner who could use literally any Taijiquan posture, chosen at random, to defend against whatever might come his way in a fight.

Another obvious flaw with this reasoning is that, unless you clairvoyantly know exactly what the opponent is going to execute against you in real time, each time he throws something at you, you cannot possibly hope to select just the right posture (and its hypothetically perfect defense) in time to use it correctly. Not only does action beat reaction, but there would be option anxiety to deal with as well.

Perhaps the final nail in the coffin of this line of reasoning, though, is the fact that, no matter how many ingenious built-in attacks/defenses each posture of your art contains, exactly none of it will do you any bit of good unless you've practiced it to the point of unconscious functionality. The real question then becomes, 'how many of these postures have you (in the everyman sense) learned to use against punches and kicks?' Merely saying or implying that it doesn't matter because every posture contains both attacks and defenses suitable to the purpose is a grand intellectual red herring. No matter what's in your art, each practitioner has access to exactly none of it save what they personally have practiced to the point of real combat functionality.

I would have a far tougher time in a fight handling the guy who has studied Taijiquan for 20 years but has only practiced the Grasp the Sparrow's Tail Set the whole time, versus the identical guy who has studied Taijiquan for 20 years and has tried to memorize the attack and defense applications of every posture in the style. The former guy I might underestimate and be clobbered by.....the latter guy I would make my bitch at will.

Remember, martial arts and styles do not exist in and of themselves, folks. They are abstract labels for sets of physical behavior on the part of humans. If the physical behavior isn't present, neither is the art...nor anything it contains.

[shawnsegler]

See, I think that one of the biggest problem with Martial arts in general is that every single person is going to have to find for themselves a personal happy medium between the advanced concept of driving your martial as efficiently as possible by using these deep abstractions and a rigorously honest, no nonsense approach to functionality.

I think 99 percent of our argument have their basis in some sort of discord based around one persons personal interpretation of that and someone elses.

S

[Chris McKinley]

Segs, I can't hear you with that dick in your mouth. Just kidding....I really should stay away from Off Topic Youtube clips.

[David Boxen]

Isn't the problem always to balance being super-proficient at 1 thing and being able to cover all the possibilities of attack/defence?

[mixjourneyman]

Actually Chris, I agree with you 100%.
What I meant was just that each posture has a use.
I think a useful thing to do with a TJQ set is look into what postures you can use to defend against what attacks.
For instance, what works best for me against punches? Kicks? Leg shoots? etc....
I just wanted to make the point that on a fundamental level, you can pick almost any move from the TJQ form and it will have an application that you can use in several contexts.

[Interloper]

Why would taiji need "thousands of techniques" to defend against kicking and punching, when it has a very basic internal body skill that will do the job nicely: an-jing. When you have internal shit, you don't need no steenking "techniques."

[shawnsegler]

Now Chris, don't make me out you as a dual devotee of Jane Hallanders silk jammied tai chi and her support group for animal telepepathy and SF Janes support group for well...you know.



S

[everything]

Actually Chris, I agree with you 100%.
What I meant was just that each posture has a use.
I think a useful thing to do with a TJQ set is look into what postures you can use to defend against what attacks.
For instance, what works best for me against punches? Kicks? Leg shoots? etc....
I just wanted to make the point that on a fundamental level, you can pick almost any move from the TJQ form and it will have an application that you can use in several contexts.

A good reason why I prefer a shorter form and why I admire the conciseness of xingyi's 5 elements and Western boxing. How many postures does one need? 3? 4? 5?