the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

How many of you have ever tried starting your sparring sessions or scenario training by deliberately taking a gloved punch to the head first? Granted, it's not the healthiest thing to do all the time, and it's not exactly a lot of fun. But on rare occasions, it can be a good way to experience what it's like to start an encounter from a disadvantaged/diminished position.

But Chris, but Chris....why would one do that? Why would one train to start an encounter from a disadvantaged/diminished position? Because, in reality, there's a very good chance that that's exactly how a real violent encounter may begin. Worse yet, the better (and more aware/alert) you are, the greater that percentage chance becomes.

But Chris, but Chris....how??? How does the percent chance of starting a violent encounter from a disadvantaged/diminished position actually go up the more alert you become? Well, first I should preface the answer with the fact that the chance of a violent encounter at all actually goes down because the more alert you are, the more you are able to avoid them altogether. However, that also means that, among those encounters that are not avoidable, there is a greater likelihood that they begin with your being surprised, and therefore struck as a matter of opportunity.

So, okay, the reasoning for doing it in the first place kinda makes sense, but what exactly does starting a session by purposefully taking a gloved shot to the head get you in terms of real ability? It gets you familiar with the physiological and psychological circumstances that could very well be present when your life is threatened. If you have experienced those feelings before in training, then at least the novelty won't be there along with the other debilitating effects to compound the situation. If your finely honed neijia abilities fall apart the moment you're tagged a good one in the noggin, then I suggest, dear reader, you are gravely deceiving yourself if you think you are even remotely prepared for the realities of a real violent assault.

So, how to proceed? Well, the initial thump shouldn't be so hard that you risk concussion, but it does need to be solid enough to cause at least a mild, momentary stunning effect...just enough to 'ring your bell' a little, so to speak. From there, begin the sparring session or scenario as usual and pay close attention to exactly what effect it has on your ability to respond effectively.

This kind of training is a bit extreme, I realize, and it's neither for everyone, nor for anyone too frequently. It is inherently quite a bit more dangerous than most of the training most of you are familiar with, and neurological damage is nothing at all to play with. Still, even experiencing it once, under controlled conditions and with trusted partners, can teach a very valuable lesson about the potential dangers of a real violent assault that most of your traditional training, and none of your solo training, can provide.

Yes, quite frequently.

I agree - it's good to experience this state in training so it doesn't cause you to shut down if you ever need it for real.

My teacher says it's like playing tekken - if you still have something left in your energy bar, you should fight. Your situation won't be improved by shutting down once getting struck, as there are many more strikes on the way. When you get hit, that's when you should really start to move.

You mean starting your response from a point of failure? what a novel idea! The extent to which you may explore your personal combat could be limitless with an approach such as that!

Okay, he fell for it, boys. Throw the nets on him and bring him down easy. Use the tranqs if you have to, but we need him intact back at the lab.

Not intentionally, no. But yes, I see your point.

Sorry, Chris. Couldn't help myself. I was just waiting for Segler to pm me back but he's giving me the cold shoulder, it seems.

This is a good topic, so I'm gonna leave now.

No cold shoulder. I had to pick up my kid, make him dinner and we're carving pumpkins right now. Just taking a two second break. I'll pm you in a bit, Bruce.

Best,

S

smart idea if you want to be able to defend yourself... can't say I have actively sought to be hit first in training, though it does happen a bit at work... be it mentally or physically. It is interesting to see how different people respond to being hit. Personally I find it is not so much the power of the hit that shuts you down but the shock of the hit. Most of us are not very conditioned to have strangers touch us on the face... let alone smash it.

No. I get smacked about enough as it is!

Walk the Torque wrote:No. I get smacked about enough as it is!

QFT

Walk the Torque wrote:No. I get smacked about enough as it is!

QFT

lol.

there is a whole area of work where you use the first contact and it feeds your next motion or response. I have played about with this quite alot. Really useful for suprise attacks etc ... but you need to be pretty relaxed to get it.

Also getting used to taking a smack in the face is no bad thing! once the fear of being hit is gone you are much more free to do your stuff. We beat each other pretty good in my classes ...

cheers
Chris

I like this idea and am going to try it out.


As an aside, do you ever have any of your training partners surprise you with an attack at random?
I think this could be valuable too, but a little unpredictable and maybe not as controlled.

I don't see that it makes any difference when you get smacked in sparring. Someone has to take the first shot. And always do. Shots can often come out of "nowhere" and you can't do anything about them, even if you want to.

Your reaction shouldn't and wouldn't be different if you "allow" it or not. All of it should be in sparring anyway. So what we really got. Distractions & (attempted)cleverness for its own sake. Being sucker punched is not the same as standing and saying ok, take a free shot. Nope, it's nothing of the sort.

Like Shooter said, starting from failure is a good idea. That said, we do this kind of drill in class, but so far I didn't take a full powered fist to the head. I am not ready for that yet. But softer punches yes as well as getting punched in the stomach before starting the defense.

Mut wrote: Personally I find it is not so much the power of the hit that shuts you down but the shock of the hit. Most of us are not very conditioned to have strangers touch us on the face... let alone smash it.

OTOH, once you get hit in the face you basically have an excuse to hit back.

also, you can use the hit to generate a chain of your own hits, if you're relaxed enough.

mixjourneyman wrote:As an aside, do you ever have any of your training partners surprise you with an attack at random?
I think this could be valuable too, but a little unpredictable and maybe not as controlled.

definitely. I even posted about this a few weeks ago but got booed off the stage, so to speak.

cloudz wrote:I don't see that it makes any difference when you get smacked in sparring.

it makes a lot of difference. when two people agree to spar, they're physically and psychologically prepared to get hit.

do you think it'd make a difference to get hit in the dark or while your vision is impeded (i.e. you can't see the strike coming)?