neijia expert and esoterism

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: neijia expert and esoterism

Postby Trick on Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:55 pm

If to follow Miyamoto Musashi’s way, you might have to follow his 21 rules for life… could be difficult
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Re: neijia expert and esoterism

Postby wiesiek on Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:04 am

You mean:

1 Accept everything just the way it is.
2 Do not seek pleasure for its own sake.
3 Do not, under any circumstances, depend on a partial feeling.
4 Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world.
5 Be detached from desire your whole life long.
6 Do not regret what you have done.
7 Never be jealous.
8 Never let yourself be saddened by a separation.
9 Resentment and complaint are appropriate neither for oneself or others.
10 Do not let yourself be guided by the feeling of lust or love.
11 In all things have no preferences.
12 Be indifferent to where you live.
13 Do not pursue the taste of good food.
14 Do not hold on to possessions you no longer need.
15 Do not act following customary beliefs.
16 Do not collect weapons or practice with weapons beyond what is useful.
17 Do not fear death.
18 Do not seek to possess either goods or fiefs for your old age.
19 Respect Buddha and the gods without counting on their help.
20 You may abandon your own body but you must preserve your honor.
21 Never stray from the way.

thank you Trick,
I have the chance to read it 1st time, Shame of me .
BTW, `cause you`re interesting in techniques :
During the class Mark noted, that I know one of the tech. presented ,and in addition I`m doing it right out of the box.
Nothing strange, it was like the >nyzykiem< famous cut from Polish sabre fencing.
It is part of figure 8, diagonal upward cut.
This move was the most difficult for my wrist, when I returned to sword work couple years ago, so I`ve trained it 30 times everyday before basic workout, two years before I met Mark.
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Re: neijia expert and esoterism

Postby wiesiek on Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:21 am

ps
@AL2016
`cause you`re interested, and from the France...
do you ever heard about Kwan Um Do Kwang,or Zen Master Udong?
Kinda of strange, that I didn`t get responds from our members from US or Korea.
Style seems to be well established circa 30 y.a.
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Re: neijia expert and esoterism

Postby Trick on Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:41 am

wiesiek wrote:You mean:

1 Accept everything just the way it is.
2 Do not seek pleasure for its own sake.
3 Do not, under any circumstances, depend on a partial feeling.
4 Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world.
5 Be detached from desire your whole life long.
6 Do not regret what you have done.
7 Never be jealous.
8 Never let yourself be saddened by a separation.
9 Resentment and complaint are appropriate neither for oneself or others.
10 Do not let yourself be guided by the feeling of lust or love.
11 In all things have no preferences.
12 Be indifferent to where you live.
13 Do not pursue the taste of good food.
14 Do not hold on to possessions you no longer need.
15 Do not act following customary beliefs.
16 Do not collect weapons or practice with weapons beyond what is useful.
17 Do not fear death.
18 Do not seek to possess either goods or fiefs for your old age.
19 Respect Buddha and the gods without counting on their help.
20 You may abandon your own body but you must preserve your honor.
21 Never stray from the way.

thank you Trick,
I have the chance to read it 1st time, Shame of me .
BTW, `cause you`re interesting in techniques :
During the class Mark noted, that I know one of the tech. presented ,and in addition I`m doing it right out of the box.
Nothing strange, it was like the >nyzykiem< famous cut from Polish sabre fencing.
It is part of figure 8, diagonal upward cut.
This move was the most difficult for my wrist, when I returned to sword work couple years ago, so I`ve trained it 30 times everyday before basic workout, two years before I met Mark.

He supposedly wrote those down on his deathbed. If he actually lived by all of those “rules”……………who knows?
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Re: neijia expert and esoterism

Postby Trick on Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:43 am

Actually most of them kind of merge into one and the same
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Re: neijia expert and esoterism

Postby AL2016 on Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:28 pm

Kienda

No i dont understand your message sorry can repeat please ?

For everybody are you sure we dont get far from the subject?
Last edited by AL2016 on Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: neijia expert and esoterism

Postby yeniseri on Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:34 pm

Steve James wrote:The "internal" arts are esoteric by definition. It's a very small club....
Afa the Taoist magical stuff, that's also connected to traditional medicine and traditional martial rituals. We tend to have our view that magic, spirituality, medicine, religion, science, etc., are all separate categories. I'd bet that when cmas emerged from societies that didn't make, or need to make, those neat distinctions. And, yeah, that's why some religious westerners will not do yoga or taichi because they fear demons. Helas, il est juste comme ça.


Internal arts was never esoteric but it appeared to become so with its modernization and lack of true experts so the Daoist mystical stuff sticks and this is what we have today.
A studious man in possession of an heirloom is quite different from as ass with just loads of book on its back. ;D
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Re: neijia expert and esoterism

Postby Steve James on Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:58 pm

Internal arts was never esoteric but it appeared to become so with its modernization


Well, in fact, I don't believe that the internal arts are more magical than the external arts. Mysticism and magic are part of Chinese culture. When it's reported that Sun Lutang (or Yang Luchan) predicted the time of their deaths, it's an illustration of their advanced spiritual development. The idea of manipulating and using qi wasn't invented by the internal arts.

I do agree that we in the west turn what some cultures would consider knowledge as supernatural. However, that wasn't what I mean by the internal arts being esoteric. I meant that it was practiced by a small group of people who kept (and keep) their knowledge within a small group.

Yes, one could argue that all CMAs are esoteric. But, the opposite of esoteric is "not mysterious", open, common, well known, familiar, etc.
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Re: neijia expert and esoterism

Postby windwalker on Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:25 pm

Trick wrote:If to follow Miyamoto Musashi’s way, you might have to follow his 21 rules for life… could be difficult



For those interested

"abandon your life or throw away fear. The first technique is the last, the beginner and the master behave in the same way. "

https://terebess.hu/zen/mesterek/musashi.html

https://terebess.hu/zen/mesterek/A-book ... -rings.pdf

This site has the book of five rings for download as well as other Zen works by noted masters.
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: neijia expert and esoterism

Postby AL2016 on Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:30 pm

Yes magic is very present in Chinese as even the Chinese caractere was originally a way of communication with the sky. Even the language and the way of thinking is mystical
Last edited by AL2016 on Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: neijia expert and esoterism

Postby wiesiek on Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:18 am

@Al
?
I just asked : Do you know /ever heard of/, Zen Master Udong and his sword art.
He passed out recently, but was livin` in the France.
and
it is very much in the topic, `cause I`ve been told, that his art is direct Mushashi transmission from the spiritual realm,
so
you have neijia expert and esoterism in one neat pakage in your area.
If you didn`t know -start diggin`. -saber-
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Re: neijia expert and esoterism

Postby AL2016 on Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:22 am

Ok sorry no i dont know m'y friend
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Re: neijia expert and esoterism

Postby wiesiek on Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:34 am

and
you see, keepin` state of mind - >I don`t know<
is the 1st and best step on the Way.
Not my word , but Zen Master`s - Soe san nim

best
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Re: neijia expert and esoterism

Postby Steve James on Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:31 am

Google Shaolin + levitation or magic or spirits.
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Re: neijia expert and esoterism

Postby oragami_itto on Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:29 am

Steve James wrote:Google Shaolin + levitation or magic or spirits.


Supposedly Yang Pan Hou levitated when he killed his daughter.
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