Some more from Wang Xiangzhai

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Some more from Wang Xiangzhai

Postby dacheng on Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:22 pm

Excerpt from "New chapter of fist science" - Wang Xiangzhai's teachings recorded by Qi Zhidu in 1939

http://yiquan.academy/articles.php?article_id=75
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Re: Some more from Wang Xiangzhai

Postby KEND on Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:03 pm

Thank you for the article, it has depth and insight
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Re: Some more from Wang Xiangzhai

Postby dacheng on Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:59 am

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Re: Some more from Wang Xiangzhai

Postby Wanderingdragon on Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:52 am

Love studying the old masters, but you cannot read past them, nor can you just read over their ideas, you must study them.

"When mind is observing the space around your body, it should achieve the same level as when observing your own body."


Just one sentence, many will read on without fully comprehending, much like the art and it's form, without study you are
Just sleepwalking. Old master Wang, and anyone who practices diligently a true art will come to great understanding.
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Re: Some more from Wang Xiangzhai

Postby Wanderingdragon on Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:20 am

I was hoping someone could explain, just exactly how to observe the space around my body, at the same level that I observe my body?
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Re: Some more from Wang Xiangzhai

Postby wiesiek on Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:29 am

exactly in the same manner as you`re doin` it inside the body.
from small circle/point to the bigger area
and
again

me thinkin`
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Re: Some more from Wang Xiangzhai

Postby Wanderingdragon on Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:51 am

Well, if that's the best understanding one can offer, we waist our time reading beyond that point.
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Re: Some more from Wang Xiangzhai

Postby robert on Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:09 pm

Thanks for posting those.
The method of practicing this boxing art is nothing more than opening and closing, passive and active. The subtlety of the art is based entirely upon their alternations. Chen Xin
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Re: Some more from Wang Xiangzhai

Postby dacheng on Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:07 am

That's also from "New chapter of fist science" - Wang Xiangzhai's teachings recorded by Qi Zhidu in 1939

http://yiquan.academy/articles.php?article_id=80
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Re: Some more from Wang Xiangzhai

Postby robert on Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:31 am

Always good stuff. Thanks for posting that.
The method of practicing this boxing art is nothing more than opening and closing, passive and active. The subtlety of the art is based entirely upon their alternations. Chen Xin
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Re: Some more from Wang Xiangzhai

Postby Bhassler on Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:07 am

Wanderingdragon wrote:I was hoping someone could explain, just exactly how to observe the space around my body, at the same level that I observe my body?


I suspect there are different answers, depending on if you want to know from a specific Yiquan perspective, a broader Chinese cultural/historical perspective, or from a western perspective.

I know fuck-all about the first two, but from a western perspective, one might start by understanding that babies learn about their own bodies by exploring the environment around them. This means that the external environment is "mapped" in the brain before the internal environment-- in order for there to be a "you", there has to be a "not you." This is all well researched and documented and I'm sure folks could find lots more detail with a google search. It does, however, validate from a western scientific perspective the need to observe the external space as closely as the internal, and shows that the space around us is already an important part of our physical self image.

From a practical sense, the range of our perceptual field can be refined and extended by things like weapons practice and partner work, with careful attention to things like range, angles, leverage, and timing. So it can get esoteric from a philosophical standpoint, and complicated from the standpoint of scientific explanation. For actual usage, however, the way to accomplish it looks a lot like regular good quality martial arts practice, as long as the practitioner is deliberate about what they're doing.
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Re: Some more from Wang Xiangzhai

Postby robert on Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:11 pm

Bhassler wrote:
Wanderingdragon wrote:I was hoping someone could explain, just exactly how to observe the space around my body, at the same level that I observe my body?

I know fuck-all about the first two, but from a western perspective, one might start by understanding that babies learn about their own bodies by exploring the environment around them. This means that the external environment is "mapped" in the brain before the internal environment-- in order for there to be a "you", there has to be a "not you." This is all well researched and documented and I'm sure folks could find lots more detail with a google search. It does, however, validate from a western scientific perspective the need to observe the external space as closely as the internal, and shows that the space around us is already an important part of our physical self image.

And to expand on this theme in traditional art education when learning to draw artists are taught about positive and negative space. An object is positive space and the space around it is negative space. A common exercise is to draw the space around objects - which of course is an outline of the object (or objects), but is a different way of looking at it.
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It also invokes the idea of Zheng Manqing of swimming on land. FZQ also said that taiji is like swimming in the air.

Bhassler wrote:From a practical sense, the range of our perceptual field can be refined and extended by things like weapons practice and partner work, with careful attention to things like range, angles, leverage, and timing.

I agree. I will point out the context the quote was written in.

You need to master the art to such a level that you can act spontanously. Mind is not coming from outside to inside, but from inside is expressed outside. You must be aware of outside, but you also need to be aware of your body. The practitioners should understand this well.


Also the quote is embedded in a paragraph discussing principles.

When learning a martial art, you need to learn principles, the use of mind and the form. When mind is observing the space around your body, it should achieve the same level as when observing your own body. If you focus only on learning outside form, not knowing about principles and the way of using awareness, your mind will be under too much burden and your thoughts will be in chaos. Not only will this not be beneficial, but it can be harmful for you body and mind.

I would say that mind coming from outside to inside is reacting and using using habituated movement whereas mind moving from inside to outside is using movement principles, that is, body mechanics. Using leverage as opposed to brute strength is an example.
The method of practicing this boxing art is nothing more than opening and closing, passive and active. The subtlety of the art is based entirely upon their alternations. Chen Xin
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Re: Some more from Wang Xiangzhai

Postby Trick on Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:04 am

robert wrote:It also invokes the idea of Zheng Manqing of swimming on land. FZQ also said that taiji is like swimming in the air.

In YiQuan this analogy is also used, plus a bunch of more visualizations...as also are found in FZQ’s Taiji.
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Re: Some more from Wang Xiangzhai

Postby Trick on Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:07 am

Actually the method is so simple yet still very effective with quite quick results.
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Re: Some more from Wang Xiangzhai

Postby robert on Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:12 am

Trick wrote:
robert wrote:It also invokes the idea of Zheng Manqing of swimming on land. FZQ also said that taiji is like swimming in the air.

In YiQuan this analogy is also used, plus a bunch of more visualizations...as also are found in FZQ’s Taiji.

That's interesting, thanks.
The method of practicing this boxing art is nothing more than opening and closing, passive and active. The subtlety of the art is based entirely upon their alternations. Chen Xin
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