High round kick in CMA?

[cloudz]

Hey folks this clip over on MAP kf forum started a little debate of the existence of the kick in kung fu. In other words some guy was saying that it isn't in trad CMA, but according to him was developed in Karate.

I'm curious can anyone here shed more light on it

here's the clip - kung fu guy taking part in kyokushin tourney



the thread
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums ... hp?t=83615

any thoughts?

ultimately it's a dumb argument (in my view). just a bit curious if the guy has a point or not..

[Interloper]

Some of the KF systems have relatively high kicks (to the chest, usually), but IMO anything higher is a very recent adoption of Korean TKD-style kicks. The purpose is more for sport and show than it is martial, though a lot of TKD guys will swear up and down that it is practical on the street and they've used it successfully.

Actually, there are a few people I know who can use it effectively, because they are so quick, but it's a very risky thing. You try it on a good grappler or anyone with streetwise skills, and they'll split you in half like a turkey wishbone at Thanksgiving dinner.

[Gary]

Yes, the chinese were dumbfounded by the high round kick when it was introduced to china by japanese monks. Now those smug chinese jerks give all the credit to Damo. Typical.

[mixjourneyman]

Bagua has a high straight kick that is aimed at the throat, but its not a very common technique in terms of use (more for stretching and the like).
Bagua also has high reverse round kicks, but they go to the outside as opposed to the inside.

[Interloper]

Gary, LOL!

Another possible origin of high kicks in Chinese arts: during the Japanese occupation of Korea, many Koreans learned karate in Japan, or from Japanese instructors in Korea. They picked up the Japanese style of punching and striking -- hip torque-powered -- and in return the Japanese learned Korean high kicks, purportedly a remnant from an old royal-court-demonstration MA called taekyon.

When TKD was established (based largely on Shotokan karate mixed with "taekyon") in the mid-1950s and became popular in the 1960s and 70s, the high kicks became a hallmark of the newly synthesized MA. I think that kungfu jumped on the high-kick bandwagon when TKD schools started sprouting up all over the world. Suddenly, everyone and his brother was kicking to the head.

[JessOBrien]

I kicked a karate guy in the sternum the other day.

I saw a Thai Boxing smoker where a guy got KO'ed by a jumping roundhouse kick in about 5 sec of the first round.

I got kicked in the neck by a Thai Boxer one time.

A Silat guy used a inside crescent kick to hit my hand one time.

-Jess O

[cerebus]

The closest I've ever learned to the karate-style high round kick in CMA is a sort of angled front kick coming from the outside up and in toward the opponent's throat/ neck striking with either the instep or the toe of the shoe. This was part of a two-person set I learned in Northern Shaolin.
I believe the full-on, large semi-circle roundhouse kick to the head has never been a part of traditional CMA (at least as far as I have seen).

[mixjourneyman]

Oh yeah, isn't mantis famous for round kicks and kicks to the chest?

[Darth Rock&Roll]

not common in tcma styles. if you look back into the manuals , even the ones from teh 50's there are no round house kicks.

in all teh sets of sil lum that i've learned, there are no roundhouse kicks.

just low snap, shovel, low lifting, high toe, high push, mid push, side kick, sweep hook low, and a variety of weird ones. no roundhouse though.

[Interloper]

Also, an observation:

If the kicker is using his instep to kick a high roundhouse, he (or his particular school/system) definitely took it from sport-style TKD. If he's using the ball of the foot to make impact, then it's possibly derived from karate (via "traditional" TKD). Kicking with the instep puts the bones of the foot at risk, and is not martial - it's sport. Ball of the foot is a better weapon for pinpointing force out of a small surface area, and also uses a much less vulnerable part of the foot.

[johnwang]

The round house kick is commonly used in the long fist system. It even exists in the basic Tan Tui form #7. You should find it at 0.10 (right high round house kick) and 0.16 (left high round house kick).

http://johnswang.com/lf1.wmv

[Interloper]

Yes, I recall the high roundhouse when I trained in Long Fist, which also had an ax kick that came up high and crashed down (on a shoulder or sternum). The high roundhouse didn't seem to fit well stylistically with the rest of the kicking arsenal, though, which led me to wonder whether it had been introduced to the system at a much later (20th-century) date.

[Ian]

Yes, the chinese were dumbfounded by the high round kick when it was introduced to china by japanese monks. Now those smug chinese jerks give all the credit to Damo. Typical.

Well don't sugar-coat it, Gary. Tell 'em straight!

[Chris Fleming]

Don't know about who and when did what technique. I do find it hard to believe though, that it never occurred to the Chinese that a foot can be thrown into someone's head and had to be shown by some other people.

[Interloper]

Chris, it's not that the Chinese didn't or couldn't figure out for themselves that you could boot someone to the head, it's just that they're too damn practical a people to think that it's a martially viable technique. Back when MAs were for fighting or combat and not for sport, it just wouldn't have been considered wise to open up your groin, commit all your weight to one foot, and totally compromise yourself for the sake of trying to hit someone in the head. But since the late 19th and the 20th centuries when CMAs and the MAs of other countries have been widely adapted for sport, it's safer to use high kicks.

And now for something completely different.