it's not a dAncE- two person fighting sets

[bruce]

I don't know why anyone would admit to training taichee fan.

i admit it i train tai chi fan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjsP2l39RXM

[neijia_boxer]

TT Liang insisted on calling his Tai Ji San Shou form "Two Person Dance". He felt that Taiji's signature skills of fluidity, sensitivity and relaxed power could be better trained if people put aside their fighting mentality for a while and just focused on the skills. many internal martial arts use cooperative training in order to teach real skills rather than testosterone fueled clinch contests. Jonathan Russell's book gives a very good description of the form and the skills it trains in his book.

"neijia boxer" is clearly just the type of person that TT Liang had in mind when he changed the name of the form. A lot of times our egos and vision of who we think we are clouds the training of the actual skills. Who gives a fuck what it's called, the 88 move san shou form contains a plethora of fighting skills that are quite useful in two-person interactions.

-Jess O'Brien

Neijia boxer is not the type of person TT Liang was thinking about when he called it a dance. I learned the 88 san shou set and practiced it for many years. I understand the fluidy, timing, neutralization and counter.... this is not done in DANCE. rumba, Salsa, ball room, swing does not have counter attacks, qi-na, kicking, punching your dance partner. I am sorry they are two very different things. one is martial arts the other is entertainment. Ego has nothing to do with dance vs. martial art... but i guess you like the chi sao dance, the An shen Pao dance, and the bagua rou shou dance. I'll keep it in its martial form to train skill and not the ballet tights form to train dance.

[Iskendar]

I don't know why anyone would admit to training taichee fan.

Call it taichee knife then.

[I-mon]

neijia boxer are you incapable of simply enjoying movement and rhythm? do you have to constantly tell yourself that you're baddass practicing serious fighting stuff? don't you ever do a little foot shuffle when you're sparring just for fun - just because it feels good? isn't that dancing?

Muhammad Ali was dancing when he trained and when he fought, no doubt.

[Walter Joyce]

It is all about ego and making the world conform to our viewpoint.

This means this and not that.

Why?

Because I say so.

This is manly (fighting but this is not (dancing)?

Why?

Because those are the messages I got when I was brought up.

Don't kid yourself, its all about ego and status.

So my advice is to be careful when construct your ego so that you leave yourself room to grow and change as your understanding of the world around you changes.

And yes, I include myself in this deluded mess of identity and status, after all I didn't grow up in a vacuum.

I guess that might be why I enjoy the neigong training, as you learn to open your body your mind opens as well.

I'm not advocating situational ethics, just an open mind.

[neijia_boxer]

neijia boxer are you incapable of simply enjoying movement and rhythm? do you have to constantly tell yourself that you're baddass practicing serious fighting stuff? don't you ever do a little foot shuffle when you're sparring just for fun - just because it feels good? isn't that dancing?

Muhammad Ali was dancing when he trained and when he fought, no doubt.

okay okay already..yes i did first learn two person set slowly as enjoying movement and flow, but the teacher later went into detail of the techniques to be performed faster and more aggressive. yes- i scoff at the term 'dance' and no i am far from a serious fighting badass. Boxers..... they say dance- but they are trading blows back at forth with each other. do dancers trade blows when dancing? only when a jealous guy hits on some other guy over a girl i have seen fights on the dance floor at clubs.

some of ya'll seem to really want some tutus.

[I-mon]

i play capoeira angola. when i was living in brazil a year or so ago i had many many guys try to take my head off during capoeira games once they saw that i could play. i got kicked hard in the face and swept and slammed on the ground many times, and i often saw other people get badly injured, take full on headbutts in the mouth, etc.

so the answer is yes, some dancers trade blows when dancing!

all that fancy footwork in boxing IS DANCING dude! you need to get yourself a trainer like apollo creed and get with it!

step-step-jab-jab-cross!-bob-uppercut!-shuffleshuffle-powpowpow!

[neijia_boxer]

i play capoeira angola. when i was living in brazil a year or so ago i had many many guys try to take my head off during capoeira games once they saw that i could play. i got kicked hard in the face and swept and slammed on the ground many times, and i often saw other people get badly injured, take full on headbutts in the mouth, etc.

so the answer is yes, some dancers trade blows when dancing!

all that fancy footwork in boxing IS DANCING dude! you need to get yourself a trainer like apollo creed and get with it!

step-step-jab-jab-cross!-bob-uppercut!-shuffleshuffle-powpowpow!

cool. this girl i dig is going to take me to her Capoeira class on Monday- i cant wait to check it out. I've seen some groups but never tired.

[river rider]

FWIW, here's another taiji and dance linkup, taken from Zhang Yun's The Art of Chinese Swordsmanship. He studied Wu taiji under one of Wang Peisheng's students and under Wang himself...
"The importance of aesthetically pleasing jian movement was recognized... At that time jian practice was referred to as wujian, or "jian dance",
meaning that the jian form was executed as though it were a dance... Only through beautiful movements can one gain a real understanding of
of all tai chi forms, and only through beautiful movements can one develop the light and agile techniques that make it possible to reach a high
level of expertise."
He then speaks of MA performers, who are just for show and in which beauty of movements is unconnected to real usage, worrying that their example creates the impression that beauty of movement is extraneous to real MA practice
"Movements that are beautiful just for their own sake and do not reflect a true knowledge of martial arts skills and principles have no place in
serious training. The two kinds of movement may appear superficially similar but they differ significantly in terms of the feelings and
experiences they generate within the practitioner. In your practice please pay careful attention to this distinction"
I don't hear the words beauty and fighting linked too often these days... but we are talking, or at least are fond of, the term martial ARTS, and part of the definition of any art involves aesthetics, which brings up the subject of beauty... leave it out and we have martial practice, but not arts.

[johnwang]

I don't know why anyone would admit to training taichee fan.

May be the wether is too hot?

[TaoJoannes]

I don't know why anyone would admit to training taichee fan.

Because it's friggin awesome. I'll try to get a presentable demo together at some point in the coming months.

Do you get to kiai as you whip those badboys open?

"KIAI!!!" *ZOP*

No kiai, only fajing.

Seriously, I love training our fan form, it's like my teacher took all the best parts of the empty hand and weapons forms and condensed them down into a single sequence. The fan itself, while useful as a weapon in various capacities, is more about training the mind and the focus. The challenge of properly opening and closing it, keeping it aligned correctly, switching hands smoothly, etc, is well worth the trouble, and also aids in building manual dexterity.

Say what you like, it's the shizzy.