Training with Chen Xiaoxing

[Feihu]

Having spent two days taking private lessons and two days of seminars with Chen Xiaoxing, I have a few comments about his instruction. First of all, if you aren't familiar with Chen Xiaoxing, he is the brother of Chen Xiaowang, and the leader of the Chen style in Chen Jiagou, as he operates the Taijiquan school there. He is basicly a farmer and martial arts teacher.

Chen Xiaoxing is a simple man, with his roots in a rural lifestyle. His gongfu is high level and he believes you can judge a person's level by how they train. He isn't one to dummy down the curriculum he teaches for westerners and believes that only through traditional hard work over time is the secret to good achievement.

During the private classes we worked on a few movements from Xinjia Yilu and some basic silk reeling skills. His focus was almost entirely on kua and leg training, very hard work. He also worked on relaxation and helping me to keep my energy down, as the low postures and hard work often caused me to tighten up in the upper body.

I was struck at the amount of hard work I needed to do what he was showing, while he seemed to do it all so effortlessly. He would laugh and crack jokes while I was nearly exhausted ... partly to lighten the atmosphere and some to simply laugh at my struggling effort. I had to laugh also, as I have learned that a smile and a laugh at one's self helps the pain in the legs and hips.

If you get a chance to work with Chen Xiaoxing, I would highly recommend it. He is a very good teacher and will give you a taste of traditional Chen Taijiquan training. If you can go to Chen Jiagou to his school, you will see the kind of work they do there and how serious Taijiquan training can be.

[Eisenhans]

Sounds good, but a few more details on the exercises and training would be nice for those of us without money to visit him

[Feihu]

Sounds good, but a few more details on the exercises and training would be nice for those of us without money to visit him

Okay, I will give it a shot.

During my private classes we worked on Xinjia Yilu and some silk reeling exercises. His hands were constantly on my lower back/butt pushing me down (legs parallel) and making sure I kept the proper position all the time. The weight shifts he showed were extreme (felt like 85/15), and not the 70/30 I am used to doing. Really a huge leg and kua workout. After about 15 minutes of this my legs were beginning to scream. He would push me farther over into my supporting leg, tell me to relax the kua, and then use the load leg like a spring to motivate the movement to the other leg. Hard to explain and even harder to do. There seemed to be less waist turn than I am used to doing, as his focus was on the lower body. He said that they legs and kua were the power of the Chen system.

During the form seminar, I saw him giving the same kinds of corrections to everyone, regardless of the age or ability. He didn't make anything easy for anyone and gave everyone a real taste of Chen Jiagou training as I have experienced it there. People attending were tired after four days of working with him, but eveyone seemed happy with what they were shown.

During the push hands he worked on the 5 levels. He pushed with everyone and walked around giving tips and correction through out the seminar. We worked on applications and qin na for levels 3-5 which was a bit painful at times (to be expected) but a lot of fun. One thing I really noticed during the push hands is how he would use the extreme weight shifts to invade my space.

[JAB]

No applications taught, or was that not the content of the seminar? Was the Chin Na combative or passive?
Thanks
Jake

[Feihu]

No applications taught, or was that not the content of the seminar? Was the Chin Na combative or passive?
Thanks
Jake

Hey Jake, applications were taught during the push hands, as that was not the context of the form classes. The form classes focused on body mechanics and the work I mentioned. I did get some applications during my privates classes, however. Nothing I hadn't seen before, but the method of how to apply them was instructive and very effective.

I am not sure what you mean by "was the qin na combative or passive". The qin na were applied during the pattern work of the 5 levels. Maybe that answers your question?

I have to run, got a student coming over so I have to get outside and warm up. I will check back later to see if you have any more questions. Take care!

[JAB]

Thanks!
I guess what I mean is when he was teaching the Chin Na Fa, was it simply you grab his wrist and he counters, type stuff. Or did he work it from a combative entry / failed throw attempt / off of a strike... type of training? I have heard good things about Chen Chin Na, but just about everything I have seen has been very passive in regards to someone just grabbing ahold and letting the demonstrater do a lock on them.
Just curious as to the approach is all. I have not heard many positive things about the Chen's (Xiao Xing / Xiao Wang) other than from there students who pay booku bucks to host and train with them, so I was happy to see you so open with your training sessions, and wanted to ask as as non-biased of an opinion as I could.
Thanks
Jake

[johnwang]

I think Jake is talking about "entering strategy".

[Feihu]

I think Jake is talking about "entering strategy".

To truthfully answer Jake and you, John, most of the qin na work was done within the context of pushing hands, so there was no "entering strategy". With a couple of qin na we worked them off a punch. No discussion of angles, footwork, or how to connect and enter, just simply, they punch you apply arm bar type of practice. So I guess it was mostly "passive" qin na practice from that perspective.

I will say that I have found, if you can apply qin na during push hands well, you can usually use it in a more "combative" method, but it does takes practice, something the seminar didn't offer.

Jake, since CXW will be coming to Seattle in Sept., contact the host and ask for some private push hands and qin na work. I am sure you would find the experience valuable. Of course, as you said, it would be expensive.

[Eisenhans]

Thx very much vor the details. I fond the difference between full and empty interesting, to say the least.

[JAB]

Feihu,
To be honest bro you are one of the VERY few I have spoken to that has had a positive experience. I do not have much money and only spend it when I am sure of a return. Not so sure with the Chen's. I highly doubt he will show me anything I have not seen under Tim!
Thanks
Jake

[Feihu]

Feihu,
To be honest bro you are one of the VERY few I have spoken to that has had a positive experience. I do not have much money and only spend it when I am sure of a return. Not so sure with the Chen's. I highly doubt he will show me anything I have not seen under Tim!
Thanks
Jake

I understand exactly where you are coming from, Jake. I do find your concern about getting a return studing with "the Chen's" curious as I know MANY that have had very positive experiences studying with them. But I guess it depends on expectations and what you feel is valuable. As far as the money, I agree, Taiji seminars/private class in general are too expensive, IMHO. Besides, from what I have heard, you can't go wrong studying with Tim.

[johnwang]

Taiji seminars/private class in general are too expensive,

How expensive is it? I have heard that CMC charged $4,000 to learn his Taiji form. He also charge $4,000 to polish that form.

[JAB]

Thanks bro! And I by no means am trying to deminish your time, training, nor experience with Chen. I am actually happy to hear a nice, good thing! You are right training can be pricey, but it is worth it if I take something away from a lesson. It is time that cannot be replaced. That is what hurts the most is wasted time!

I heard CXW requires a $10000 buy in for discipleship


Cheers,
Jake

[strawdog]

$10,000

That's so ridiculous.

[johnwang]

For $1,200 you can have a rock pole with your name on it to stand up in front of the Shaolin temple to prove that you are the 23th generation from the Shaolin system. That price was about 12 years ago and I assume we should consider the inflation as well.

Whoever said CMA is cheap?