Jin Zheng and Zheng Jin

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Jin Zheng and Zheng Jin

Postby Yeung on Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:55 am

Is there any difference between Zheng Jin 整劲 and Jin Zheng 劲整?

Jin Zheng came from the THE FIVE-WORD FORMULA 五字訣 by Li Yiyu 李亦畬 (1832-1892) as quoted in the following translation by Paul Brannan:

4. The power is COMPLETE 四曰劤整

一身之劤。練成一家。分清虚實。發劤要有根源。劤起於脚根。主於腰間。形於手指。發於脊背。又要提起全付精神。於彼劤將出未發之際。我劤已接入彼劤。恰好不後不先。如皮燃火。如泉湧出。前進後退。無絲毫散亂。曲中求直。蓄而後發。方能隨手奏效。此謂借力打人。四兩撥千斤也。

The power of your whole body is trained to become a single unit, distinguishing clearly between empty and full. To issue power, there should be a source of it. Power starts from your heel, it is directed at your waist, and expresses at your fingers, issuing from your spine. With it there should also be a rousing of all your spirit. When the opponent’s power is about to come out but has not yet issued, my power connects with and invades his instantly, neither late nor early, as if my skin is a burning fire or as if a spring is gushing forth. I advance and retreat without the slightest disorder, and seeking the straight within the curved, I store and then issue. Thus I am able to be effortlessly successful. This is called “borrowing his force to hit him with” or “using four ounces to move a thousand pounds”.
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Re: Jin Zheng and Zheng Jin

Postby MaartenSFS on Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:52 pm

Only heard of Zhengjin. We call it 震劲. Same thing. It's just a way to Fajin and doesn't have much to do with four ounces overcoming ...
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Re: Jin Zheng and Zheng Jin

Postby Wuyizidi on Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:47 pm

Yeung wrote:Is there any difference between Zheng Jin 整劲 and Jin Zheng 劲整?

Jin Zheng came from the THE FIVE-WORD FORMULA 五字訣 by Li Yiyu 李亦畬 (1832-1892) as quoted in the following translation by Paul Brannan:

4. The power is COMPLETE 四曰劤整

一身之劤。練成一家。分清虚實。發劤要有根源。劤起於脚根。主於腰間。形於手指。發於脊背。又要提起全付精神。於彼劤將出未發之際。我劤已接入彼劤。恰好不後不先。如皮燃火。如泉湧出。前進後退。無絲毫散亂。曲中求直。蓄而後發。方能隨手奏效。此謂借力打人。四兩撥千斤也。

The power of your whole body is trained to become a single unit, distinguishing clearly between empty and full. To issue power, there should be a source of it. Power starts from your heel, it is directed at your waist, and expresses at your fingers, issuing from your spine. With it there should also be a rousing of all your spirit. When the opponent’s power is about to come out but has not yet issued, my power connects with and invades his instantly, neither late nor early, as if my skin is a burning fire or as if a spring is gushing forth. I advance and retreat without the slightest disorder, and seeking the straight within the curved, I store and then issue. Thus I am able to be effortlessly successful. This is called “borrowing his force to hit him with” or “using four ounces to move a thousand pounds”.



They are the same.

A more detailed translation of the passage from http://www.lulu.com/us/en/shop/yun-zhan ... 54230.html:

四曰劲整:一身之劲,练成一家,分清虚实。

Translation:
Fourth, jin must be integrated and complete: powers of the whole body, united as one. Make clear distinctions between xu – insubstantial and shi – substantial.

Explanation:
The fourth word is about integration of jin, or trained force. One of the most important training in Taiji Quan is the practice for whole body coordinating power. That means when you use force, no matter how big or how little, instead of using an isolated part(s) of the body to generate the whole effort, every part of the body participates in the effort. Furthermore, they should all work together according to the Taiji principle. It must be very clear which parts of the body is generating the yin force and which parts the yang force. Here yin force is called xu – insubstantial, and yang force is called shi – substantial. Xu and shi should be clear distinction but not separated to two isolated parts. They are two parts in one entity. They are support each other and can be converted or exchanged to other side. This way jin will not only be very quick and powerful, but also very live and agile.


发劲要有根源:劲起于脚根,主于腰间,形与手指,发于脊骨。

Translation:
Fa jin requires a source: jin is originated from the heel, controlled by the waist, expressed through the fingers, and released by the spine.

Explanation:
Releasing or launching trained force is called fa jin. When you release jin, the general process is to use your qi to connect every part of the body, and use it to lead the movement of force within the body: it starts from the feet, travels through the body, and usually applied through the hands. The feet or heel is the root or source, the waist the control center, and the hands or fingers the end expression of that power. When a force is going from the feet to the waist, it is going through our strongest muscles, so here power is generated and amplified. The waist is connection between the lower and upper parts of the body, this is where the transfer of power from the lower body and the use of that power in the upper body is controlled. The hands, in general, are parts that express the application of the power. Most time the expression is on the finger, the tip of the body. When the power can reaches to there, it can reach to all other parts. Between the waist and the hands, the spine or the back, and the chest, are where jin is stored, and finally released.


又要提起全副精神,于彼劲将发未发之际,我劲已接入彼劲。恰好不先不后,如皮燃火,如泉涌出。

Translation:
Also need concentrate and lift up your spirit, when the opponent is just about to release his force, my force is already connected with it. Neither before nor after, like skin caught on fire, like spring water gushing out from the ground.

Explanation:
This line talks about the timing of fa jin. Release of power is different in Taiji Quan than in other styles. In most styles, whenever you want to release power, you just do it the way you wanted to directly. In Taiji Quan, force is released only when you have the right timing and position. To do that requires very sharp sensitivity on your part, where you can feel not only what your opponent is doing but also what he is about to do. With this knowledge you can apply the right amount of the force at just the right time, neither a moment too early nor a moment too late. Whenever you fa jin, the force follows a predictable pattern of going from nothing to small to large. When the force is still small, it is easy to make change and corrections. But as it gets larger, it gets progressively harder to do that. You need to find the correct point, striking the perfect balance where his force is too large to be able to be changed by the opponent, but still not large enough to cause you trouble yet. This is the perfect time for your reaction force to make contact with his.

Your force must be quick and continuous. “Skin caught on fire” is a common expression describing something that happens almost instantaneously. When the skin catches on fire, the hairs are immediately burned. “Spring water gushing out from the ground” describes a kind of fluid continuity. Again, the key to accomplishing both of these things lie with the mind. Only when you are really focused and alert can your react at just the right time.


前进后退,无丝毫散乱。曲中求直,蓄而后发,方能随手奏效。

Translation:
Moving forward or backward, without slightest disarray. Seek the linear within the circular, store and then release, this is how the skills can be effective naturally.

Explanation:
You must follow these points in every movement you do. Releasing force is like shooting an arrow: when the bow is bent, force is stored in its curvature; and when that circular shape is returned to straightness, a linear force is released. When you have mastered and internalized these skills, everything will become second nature to you, and whatever results you want to achieve just happens exactly as you want them naturally.


此所谓“借力打人”,“四两拨千斤”也!

Translation:
This is what is meant by “borrowing the opponent’s force to beat him” and “use four ounce of force to manipulate a thousand-pound force.”


Explanation:
If you can always use your force in the right way, meaning with the correct timing, direction, and position, you can reach a very high level of efficiency. For example, if your opponent pushes your chest with his hands, with your sensitivity you should know when he will start to release his force. You can move your body toward his hands, and change slightly what was to be the angle of contact. You would make contact just when he starts to release his force, the moment when he can no longer make any changes, but still too early for the force to reach a degree where it can hurt you. Because it’s too late to make any changes, his force will just continue to be released and incremented. But with the contact points and angles now being all different, the mechanical advantages has changed to your favor. The final result is that, with his own force, the opponent pushes himself back, just like push against a wall. This is common skill called jie jin – interruption force. In this skill, you just need to move your body to the right angle at the right time, and you do not really need to use much of your own force. The opponent will do almost all of the work himself. This is what is called “borrowing the opponent’s force to beat him back.”

Another classic example is to follow your opponent’s force when he attacks you. When he starts to release his force, you should just go along in the direction of his force, and use just a little bit of force to redirect his force slightly, just so his force would not land on your body directly. If his force could not land on your body, then to you it really doesn’t matter how powerful it is. You’ll only need to use a little bit of force if you can do it with the right timing and position. This skill is what is commonly known as “use four ounce of force to manipulate a thousand-pound force.”
Last edited by Wuyizidi on Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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