Qi Creation

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Qi Creation

Postby willie on Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:39 pm

Trick wrote:Maybe an excercise such as Taijiquan teach the body(if practiced right) to act in a more energy efficient way, not only appliable as an martial art but in most walks of life. This " energy efficient way" might have been seen as "storing and cultivating Qi" in a time when science was at that level. But well there might also be some "spiritual" aspect to this that science has not grasped...yet..... It's an interesting topic.


I remember when I really started getting into this stuff about 15 years ago, I started to think of the postures as if they had some kind of hieroglyphic meaning.
Perhaps I just over analyze, but it is very strange that other motions from other activities don't create the same environment or effect.
Thanks
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Re: Qi Creation

Postby Bob on Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:40 pm

I often think of Qi as not being measured but inferred and an indication of the quality of yin yang body/environment relationship. I worry less about qi creation/movement and more about alignment, breath, and intention to bring about transformation and balance and a general sense of well-being (neigong)

Confucius was also into qi cultivation:

"The important point for our purposes is that for well over two thousand years, Chinese of various philosophical persuasions believed that by cultivating their qi to the fullest extent, and thus harnessing the highly refined spiritual capabilities of their minds achieve extraordinary things. Daoist-oriented individuals, for instance, could attain immortality; Confucians, for their part, could alternatively "transform people" and ultimately change the world by means of ritual rectitude and moral force.

According to the Doctrine of the Mean, an extremely influential work initially composed in the late Warring State period, the key to Confucian self-cultivation was sincerity--the moral integrity that enables a person to become fully developed as an agent of the cosmos . . . What, then, should a such a cultivated individual do? The Confucian answer was to direct one's spirit toward achieving cosmic resonance--that is, a sympathetic vibration of qi across space

In short, harmony prevailed when like-things resonated and unlike-things were in balance. pp. 53-54

The I Ching: A Biography
Richard J. Smith
_________________________________

I don't think qi cultivation/development is unique to taiji and the martial arts in general.

Qi development/cultivation seems to be in service of more effective and efficient full body utilization in martial application.

Perhaps some of the martial arts masters attained this level for martial application and began to see qi development in a much more broader perspective than simply for fighting, seeing it as another pathway for spiritual development - for many martial artists this is totally unnecessary for fighting and far too complex

In one of Zheng Manqing's books he turned away from this pursuit of immortality as it drove him further from the realities of everyday life - the Confucian pathway was more of his liking.
Last edited by Bob on Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Qi Creation

Postby everything on Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:51 pm

to get back to willie's question a little, taijiquan, probably mainly the slower styles, seems to be at least in part designed as a type of qigong. by definition, qigong is qi work, so it should be even more helpful for you to work on qi flow and increased sense of qi, and a sense of "creation" of qi. it seems your original question is leaving out "qigong" itself. qigong is not specific to CMA or taijiquan. it may seem that way because taijiquan may be the most popular form of qigong.
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
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Re: Qi Creation

Postby Appledog on Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:38 pm

willie wrote:With all motion related to any and all activities, Why is it only CMA and "especially" Taijiquan movements that create qi?


How badly do you want to know?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xmq_FJd1oUQ
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Re: Qi Creation

Postby Trick on Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:07 pm

willie wrote:
Trick wrote:Maybe an excercise such as Taijiquan teach the body(if practiced right) to act in a more energy efficient way, not only appliable as an martial art but in most walks of life. This " energy efficient way" might have been seen as "storing and cultivating Qi" in a time when science was at that level. But well there might also be some "spiritual" aspect to this that science has not grasped...yet..... It's an interesting topic.


I remember when I really started getting into this stuff about 15 years ago, I started to think of the postures as if they had some kind of hieroglyphic meaning.
Perhaps I just over analyze, but it is very strange that other motions from other activities don't create the same environment or effect.
Thanks

A Norwegian guy teach an MA called Stav. Stav might refere to a "runic letter" and a staff/stick. A big part of the practice being standing in postures resembling certain runic letters, as a kind of Qigong practice I believe. He claim that Stav is a martial art tradition going back several generations in his family. There supposedly are students of his teaching in the US. Talking about Hieroglyps, runic letters and so on. I read about an experiment where a finely grained substance where put on some sort of a membrane then they let sound waves resembling certain Hebrew wording pass trough and the grain made the formation of an resembling Hebrew letter?? Anyway, frequencies and vibrations might have something to do with this Qi thing. Maybe prolonged Taiji/qigong/yoga practice and such put ones body in a specific vibration/frequency that are in tune with something greater than usual?
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Re: Qi Creation

Postby cloudz on Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:51 am

It's the how that you do something that makes "qi gong" not the 'what'. Qi may be ever present - if you accept the paradigm - but the self working with qi - is a process that is not. I'm sure we've all had the exeprience of going through our (tai chi) form, for example, and there being nothing much to it - like we just took a walk to the corner shop. It's a well recorded process (qi gong), so I won't repeat it here. Want to do qigong while you walk, you can, but you'll have to do more work to get it going nicely, than just walk.
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Re: Qi Creation

Postby wiesiek on Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:44 am

willie wrote:
Trick wrote:I don't think any excercise "create Qi" . When you fill your body with fuel(food) the body make use of the "food Qi" and transform it so becomes useful Qi for your body 8-)

Yes it's true what you say about energy coming from food. At least that's what some people say. But I have found that the chi is actually coming directly from the forms themselves. So the question remains, why is it that only certain movements from certain Chinese martial arts that are creating Chi energy and no other motions?


mind , breath and move as one unit,
any exercise fulfilling the criteria will doo .../creation of qi/
It just happen, that TJ guys tends to speak about it too much.

`cause I just start to read the thread, it can be 2nd time answer , :)
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Re: Qi Creation

Postby everything on Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:11 pm

wiesiek wrote:It just happen, that TJ guys tends to speak about it too much.


hahaha yeah. that could be it, too.
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
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Re: Qi Creation

Postby willie on Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:22 pm

Appledog wrote:
willie wrote:With all motion related to any and all activities, Why is it only CMA and "especially" Taijiquan movements that create qi?


How badly do you want to know?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xmq_FJd1oUQ


Hi Appledog, thanks for the video, but I've known about quantum psychics for quite a long time.
All of those types of thoughts are relevant, I believe.
willie

 

Re: Qi Creation

Postby willie on Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:26 pm

cloudz wrote:It's the how that you do something that makes "qi gong" not the 'what'. Qi may be ever present - if you accept the paradigm - but the self working with qi - is a process that is not. I'm sure we've all had the exeprience of going through our (tai chi) form, for example, and there being nothing much to it - like we just took a walk to the corner shop. It's a well recorded process (qi gong), so I won't repeat it here. Want to do qigong while you walk, you can, but you'll have to do more work to get it going nicely, than just walk.


Hi Clouds. I think that your correct in many ways in this statement. It is very much the way you do it.
However, I still don't think that doing other activities like lifting, soccer, baseball, football or mostly everything thing else will
cultavate qi no matter how it's practiced. If it did then the players of these types of sports would be talking about it too.
willie

 

Re: Qi Creation

Postby willie on Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:34 pm

wiesiek wrote:
It just happen, that TJ guys tends to speak about it too much.

`cause I just start to read the thread, it can be 2nd time answer , :)


Hi Wiesiek, Actually it's quite the opposite for me.
I've just got done doing 2.5 years in all martial work with very little of anything else. So
I kind-of miss the mysterious parts of the art. It was the mystery that kept me interested for many years.
If all that i wanted was good fighting skills, I would have just stayed with MMA.
Thanks
willie

 

Re: Qi Creation

Postby Dmitri on Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:34 pm

robert wrote:
willie wrote:Okay I don't really believe that is just a cultural thing. Qi is actually a substance like a liquid or mist that moves around in the body.

If you can identify something of substance that is qi you should get together with a physicist or physiologist or some one into bio-mechanics at a local university and publish the information. You'll be historical.

...or, it'll be hysterical. It's a win/win! :D
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Re: Qi Creation

Postby windwalker on Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:43 pm

Dmitri wrote:
robert wrote:
willie wrote:Okay I don't really believe that is just a cultural thing. Qi is actually a substance like a liquid or mist that moves around in the body.

If you can identify something of substance that is qi you should get together with a physicist or physiologist or some one into bio-mechanics at a local university and publish the information. You'll be historical.

...or, it'll be hysterical. It's a win/win! :D


lots of studies already being done on this.

Can we measure Qi? Scientists have attempted to measure bioenergy or Qi, with varying success, using many different types of meters and instruments. Most promising have been the studies using voltmeters and magnetometers to measure the electrical and magnetic fields surrounding energy healers and Qigong practitioners. In Japan, Seto and colleagues (1992; 1996) recorded extremely large magnetic fields adjacent to the heads, bodies and hands of Qigong practitioners during breathing meditations and during external Qi emission.

Elmer Green and colleagues (1991) recorded surges in the electrostatic potential (“body-potential”) of healers during distant healing sessions at the Menninger Clinic in Kansas. In my laboratory in Terre Haute, Indiana, we have observed a distinct magnetic field waveform – a symmetrical chirp wave (0 ̶ 40Hz) – which appears with high frequency during energy healing sessions.

In June, 2006, my student Danny LaPlante and I recorded magnetic field activity in several Tai Chi classrooms during Dr. Paul Lam’s 1-week workshop in West Terre Haute, Indiana. Most interestingly, we observed the ‘chirp wave’ (described above) in each of the classes we recorded, including the advanced Sun 73 form, the Sword form, and the Fan form (Figure 1).


http://www.indiana.edu/~brain/measuring ... n-tai-chi/
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Re: Qi Creation

Postby Steve James on Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:01 pm

If Qi is bioenergy, then all living things have it and Qi is just the Chinese name for it.
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Re: Qi Creation

Postby willie on Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:36 pm

Steve James wrote:If Qi is bioenergy, then all living things have it and Qi is just the Chinese name for it.

You are correct. All living things have qi energy or they wouldn't be living. There have been so many different ways people have tried to describe Chi that it could not be the same thing. Sometimes it's described as a life force. Other times it's described as a mist. Other times it's described as something that penetrates everywhere and everything in the entire universe.
Last edited by willie on Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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