Qi Creation

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Qi Creation

Postby willie on Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:06 am

charles wrote:
BruceP wrote:That just aint true.


Fair enough.

I don't think the fact that rotating systems have backlash diminishes the metaphor in any meaningful way. It should be clear that humans are not gears or ball bearings.

Hi Charles your statements are 100% correct. I was shown the exact same things that you posted. both on the gears and the ball bearings. Although I did not watch the videos at this time.

Thank You
Last edited by willie on Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Qi Creation

Postby charles on Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:54 am

willie wrote: I was shown the exact same things that you posted. both on the gears and the ball bearings.

Thank You


They are pretty common knowledge.

You're welcome.

Charles
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Re: Qi Creation

Postby everything on Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:42 pm

completely off topic. I had no idea what helical gears are, or why they are so cool and useful. or that they are used in the forward gears of cars. I had to replace my clutch (for a 6 speed manual) recently and didn't really understand transmissions at all. still don't really, but just watched a ton of video explanation of them. wish I could take a look at my actual gears.

way off topic. what the hell is wrong with Honda in F1 nowadays. used to rule the F1 engine world. now at the very bottom.
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
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Re: Qi Creation

Postby willie on Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:52 pm

everything wrote:completely off topic. I had no idea what helical gears are, or why they are so cool and useful. or that they are used in the forward gears of cars. I had to replace my clutch (for a 6 speed manual) recently and didn't really understand transmissions at all. still don't really, but just watched a ton of video explanation of them. wish I could take a look at my actual gears.

way off topic. what the hell is wrong with Honda in F1 nowadays. used to rule the F1 engine world. now at the very bottom.

Everything, you are correct it is way off topic. There is a whole lot of theories that I would like to post on this topic but unfortunately they come more from Yang Style and are completely unverifiable. So perhaps I should just leave it alone.
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Re: Qi Creation

Postby willie on Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:55 pm

charles wrote:
willie wrote: I was shown the exact same things that you posted. both on the gears and the ball bearings.

Thank You


They are pretty common knowledge.

You're welcome.

Charles

Not so common Charles is the ability to actually use the information.
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Re: Qi Creation

Postby charles on Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:43 pm

willie wrote:Not so common Charles is the ability to actually use the information.


Why do you think that is?

As one well-known teacher said, "There's no need for me to keep secrets: even when I give it students they still can't get it".
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Re: Qi Creation

Postby willie on Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:32 pm

charles wrote:
willie wrote:Not so common Charles is the ability to actually use the information.


Why do you think that is?

As one well-known teacher said, "There's no need for me to keep secrets: even when I give it students they still can't get it".

wow talk about a coincidence I was going to post the exact same phrase.
Last edited by willie on Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Qi Creation

Postby BruceP on Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:56 pm

charles wrote:
Fair enough.

I don't think the fact that rotating systems have backlash diminishes the metaphor in any meaningful way. It should be clear that humans are not gears or ball bearings.


It's a shitty metaphor for a wet theory. TJQ theory is post-script to what some dude(s) achieved, and then had folks try to emulate that skill. The thought of it is what derails the doing.
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Re: Qi Creation

Postby charles on Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:09 am

BruceP wrote:It's a shitty metaphor for a wet theory.


It's a metaphor that has a modicum of utility. It's certainly not one that "transformed" my practice.

The "wet theory" is to avoid localized powering of a movement, such as not punching with the isolated arm/shoulder?


The thought of it is what derails the doing.


There's a lot of truth to that.

Sometimes, thinking about something can aid in the better doing of that thing. Sometimes, thinking about something displaces the doing.
Last edited by charles on Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Qi Creation

Postby willie on Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:45 am

charles wrote:

The thought of it is what derails the doing.


There's a lot of truth to that.

Sometimes, thinking about something can aid in the better doing of that thing. Sometimes, thinking about something displaces the doing.


This post slid right into the gray area of lost souls.
The truth is once you have acquired the advanced level of integration that i briefly mentioned, there is no turning back.
There is no misunderstanding, There is no need to worry about arguments over thinking and doing. The entire art reveals itself instantly and only
with a master who truly understands this level can anyone acquire it. There is only one way and all others are incorrect.
If-fact none of the applications have proper functionality without this level and that is exactly why many taiji practitioners make up or believe in all kinds
of theories that had nothing to do with the original text.
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Re: Qi Creation

Postby charles on Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:50 pm

willie wrote:
charles wrote:

The thought of it is what derails the doing.


There's a lot of truth to that.

Sometimes, thinking about something can aid in the better doing of that thing. Sometimes, thinking about something displaces the doing.


This post slid right into the gray area of lost souls.
The truth is once you have acquired the advanced level of integration that i briefly mentioned, there is no turning back.
There is no misunderstanding, There is no need to worry about arguments over thinking and doing. The entire art reveals itself instantly and only
with a master who truly understands this level can anyone acquire it. There is only one way and all others are incorrect.
If-fact none of the applications have proper functionality without this level and that is exactly why many taiji practitioners make up or believe in all kinds
of theories that had nothing to do with the original text.


Willie,

I'm not interested in getting into personal arguments. However, one sees this sort of "reasoning" in many situations in life and I'm curious about how those who advocate such things reconcile contrary points of view. Humour me, if you will: specifically, in this situation, there is a sufficient number of teachers of Taijiquan, each belonging to their own styles, who are recognized as "masters who truly understand" their respective versions of the art. There are similarities in what skills they have, in what they teach and how they teach it, but there are also some significant differences. If each stated that, "There is only one way and all others are incorrect", how do you reconcile that what they do is different from what you do? Are they necessarily wrong, by virtue of the fact that it isn't the same as what you do?

By your "only one right way" reasoning, how do you know that one of them isn't doing the one right way and that your way is wrong? Because you have faith (i.e. believe) that yours is right and everyone not doing/believing what you do is wrong? Every student studying with a "master" believes his or her teacher is "The Real Deal". Evidence suggests this just isn't so. What does that suggest?

A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
Friedrich Nietzsche
German philosopher (1844 - 1900)
Last edited by charles on Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Qi Creation

Postby oragami_itto on Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:37 pm

charles wrote:By your "only one right way" reasoning, how do you know that one of them isn't doing the one right way and that your way is wrong? Because you have faith (i.e. believe) that yours is right and everyone not doing/believing what you do is wrong? Every student studying with a "master" believes his or her teacher is "The Real Deal". Evidence suggests this just isn't so. What does that suggest?


Looking up it becomes higher and higher,
Looking down it becomes deeper and deeper.
"This principle is very obvious and requires no further elaboration."
-Yang Cheng Fu
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Re: Qi Creation

Postby willie on Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:46 pm

Sorry Charles it's not my job to humor you. The truth is I don't even care to prove anything to you or anyone else. maybe you should ask yourself one question. Then come up with a conclusion for yourself. Here's the question. If the majority of all the applications require Dantian rotation at its highest levels. Then how could you expect the applications to actually perform at the highest levels? If the practitioner doesn't understand anything about Dantian rotation or the transmission necessary to bring the Dantian rotation out to the limbs. how many of these Masters that you speak of can actually perform the applications in combat? the simple truth from the thousands of practitioners that I have seen is that most only acquire Peng, root and a couple theories. Most of them believe that taiji is only to yield. This is not true. All those theories are just a replacement for the fact that they do not and cannot make real Tai Chi work because they do not have the proper instructions.
Last edited by willie on Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Qi Creation

Postby charles on Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:17 pm

willie wrote:Sorry Charles it's not my job to humor you.


Ah, well, I thought we might have a rational, objective discussion. I guess my expectations were unrealistic.


willie wrote:All those theories are just a replacement for the fact that they do not and cannot make real Tai Chi work because they do not have the proper instructions.


Funny, that's largely what Brucep stated,

TJQ theory is post-script to what some dude(s) achieved, and then had folks try to emulate that skill. The thought of it is what derails the doing.


and I replied with,

There's a lot of truth to that.


To which you replied,

willie wrote:This post slid right into the gray area of lost souls...If-fact none of the applications have proper functionality without this level and that is exactly why many taiji practitioners make up or believe in all kinds of theories that had nothing to do with the original text.


That's pretty circular.

Anyway, since this discussion isn't going anywhere, I'm out.
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Re: Qi Creation

Postby willie on Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:52 pm

BruceP wrote:
charles wrote:
Fair enough.

I don't think the fact that rotating systems have backlash diminishes the metaphor in any meaningful way. It should be clear that humans are not gears or ball bearings.


It's a shitty metaphor for a wet theory. TJQ theory is post-script to what some dude(s) achieved, and then had folks try to emulate that skill. The thought of it is what derails the doing.

Okay Charles so now we will have that conversation without argument hopefully. What I'm getting from his writing may be different than what your understanding is. He seems to be stating that the problem is that people are trying to imitate someone else who had skill And that by doing so they have put themselves into a position we're doing is actually non-existent. But the problem with this Theory is that if you don't first learn how to do it correctly then all the doing in the world is incorrect.
willie

 

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