The "Fake" stuff...

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby Franklin on Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:15 pm

wayne hansen wrote:I have met plenty of people who if they had the right stuff from the start would be good students
They have been taught to look with deluded eyes
A student of mine who had been training for 30 years told me my tai chi was the best he had seen
I told him he thought that because he had been taught to look with my eyes
He was looking from a biased outlook
If all the charletens went away tomorrow only the real stuff would remain
Some people would stay and learn the lot others would not
At least they would have the opportunity
If there is only pure water to drink we would drink
For those that don't want the real thing there is always Morris dancing
The reason traditional martial arts is not so strong today is because the best students go to MMA
Give me those students I will produce warriors
Saying all that it matters little
What will be will be
I am just a little bitter I will take real gems to the grave as many others have
It is not I that will miss out but a long thread of priceless knowledge will be lost



Wayne you always seem like a stand up guy

my experience is that even the real stuff comes at different levels of concentration...
and they will say that the others are doing it wrong
but instead of jumping on that train-- i have found the most useful
is the study why they do it a little different...


a long time ago i gave up investing in what I thought people should or should not be doing
(in martial arts and in traditional medicine)
i realized that people have their own path..
you can offer advice
but it is up to them to take action on it...
its their own path to walk -- and they are ready and can handle what they are ready for and what they can handle at the time...


hopefully you won't take your gems to the grave...
you have students for over 30 years...
and in this modern era you could put your teaching out there for the people who were interested..
and for the people that were ready for them
(i found that even if you share openly -- it will only be the people that are ready that will actually get it...
the drawback will be the people who don't get it and who only repeat what you taught but without the substance...
but even that is a fault of many traditional schools-- how many times have we seen senior students of someone who just did not have the skill-- even after spending years and years with hands on instruction...)



just some thoughts man..

Franklin
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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby Franklin on Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:20 pm

Aqui wrote:All these fake martial artists are no problem AS LONG as they don't teach (usually they charge large amounts of money to teach their super secret stuff).
But the moment you use fake shit to promote your style to rip of your students, your a fraud.
my 2 cents...
Best,
Aqui


everything to some extent is fake...

for example--

a teacher that is teaching the real stuff...
if he has a student who is not up to it
should he continue to teach that person and collect their money
or should he kick the student out

if he continues to teach that person-
is that not fake teaching?
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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby wayne hansen on Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:36 pm

You are right I have had students for a long time
I only have a few now and they have no desire to teach
That might change when I go
I didn't say I will take it all to the grave but some gems will not get passed on
Not because I wish that but people these days don't have the time or aptitude to get it all
When you work on fake stuff to impress others it stops you from going through the right doors
Things that are impressive to others are of little import to those that seek a different path
The most enlightening things I could show mean little to most
To me they are everything
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby wayne hansen on Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:37 am

Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby cloudz on Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:22 am

Franklin wrote:
cloudz wrote:It doesn't matter, just because one guy can beat another doesn't follow that that first guy can't or doesn't post nonsense or stuff that is dubious let's say. They are not directly related.



by that logic..
even if people put stuff up that is dubious or nonsense
then it would stand to reason that it doesn't mean that they don't have anything good to offer...


Yes definitely they may have good material, some of them. You say it like that logic is something novel.
Interesting.
Last edited by cloudz on Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby windwalker on Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:32 am

wayne hansen wrote:https://www.facebook.com/dumbassmartialarts/videos/943069625882252/


have clips of you doing some of things you've talked about.
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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:35 am

Let's see them
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby windwalker on Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:37 am

Franklin wrote:
a teacher that is teaching the real stuff...
if he has a student who is not up to it
should he continue to teach that person and collect their money
or should he kick the student out

if he continues to teach that person-
is that not fake teaching?


The teacher is teaching according to the students ability.

The student will continue to stay as long
as he/she feels they'er getting some value out of it.

I've known some teachers not to teach things because they felt that either it was not needed
or the student/students where not of the right character. For some teachers the character issue
wasn't a major problem as they also had ties to the gangs that came to them for training.
Loyalty was the issue.

In what some might call traditional schools, the students not wanted would be made to leave
on there own....lots of different ways to to do this.
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby windwalker on Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:38 am

wayne hansen wrote:Let's see them


my writing was not clear... :P

Do you have clips showing some of things you've posted about?
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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:04 am

You seem to be quoating me out of context
When was it I said
Let's see them
What would you like me to show
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby Subitai on Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:05 pm

Saw this posted today... For the OP, all I can say is that i'm qualified enough to at least have an informed opinion about this kind of stuff.


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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:08 pm

gimme a student with ears like that and we could rule the world
"This principle is very obvious and requires no further elaboration."
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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:24 pm

Subitai wrote:Saw this posted today... For the OP, all I can say is that i'm qualified enough to at least have an informed opinion about this kind of stuff.




Not quite sure what you mean by that
And what is that opinion
Last edited by wayne hansen on Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby Subitai on Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:06 pm

wayne hansen wrote:
Subitai wrote:Saw this posted today... For the OP, all I can say is that i'm qualified enough to at least have an informed opinion about this kind of stuff.




Not quite sure what you mean by that
And what is that opinion


Well I took an acting class long ago (not that it helped) and the instructor said that the public "automatically and instrinsically" (ie knows in a natural way) what is GOOD acting or not. He heavily implied that it's critical to pass their scrutiny. Now if the adoring public wields that type of power, how much more would a professional in the field be able to judge?

I started in 78"...i've never really stopped and i've fought and taught as a profession since the 90's. It's not as if I have another job like being a plumber and "oh by the way I also do kung fu". I was being nice when I implied that I had an opinion (that implication I thought was obvious) . But if you were to force my opinion, then I call fake and I gave my reason as to why I think I can say so.
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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby windwalker on Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:29 pm

I call fake and I gave my reason as to why I think I can say so./


it does not qualify what is happening in that clip or why it is happening and what they feel they are doing.

A thread was written on "peng Jin"
When students first learn to connect their structure and develop what is called "peng" and are able to express it.
It tends to unify their structure they will tend to react as a ball.

Which this teacher is using in the demo.

If something is said to be fake or faked it would be better to read the reason as to why.
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