Stress Test - We may not push ourselves hard enough

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Stress Test - We may not push ourselves hard enough

Postby Trick on Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:26 am

The "hard" foundation work should be done during ones "younger" years. After 50 go the moderation road in everything
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Re: Stress Test - We may not push ourselves hard enough

Postby Franklin on Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:39 pm

last year I read this book..
and the only reason I read it was because I recognized some of the triathletes that used this method
from when they competed in the Beauty and the Beast Triathlon (iron man level race) that used to be held in my hometown in the USVI
If i did not recognize the names and know they were serious athletes.. I would have just passed it by and thought it was just another of those exercise book that people write about their unproven theories.. (you know the ones that seem just to make someone famous more a minute and gett hem exposure...


its a completely different take on what you want to try John..
maybe you can check it out
its very specific about training protocols regarding heart rate..
https://www.amazon.com/Maffetone-Method ... one+method


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Re: Stress Test - We may not push ourselves hard enough

Postby RobP3 on Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:27 am

I don't get it. You want to protect your heart by putting more strain on it?
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Re: Stress Test - We may not push ourselves hard enough

Postby marvin8 on Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:52 am

There are multiple formulas for calculating Maximum Heart Rate (MHR).

From Maximum Heart Rate Calculator, http://nowlin.com/heartrate.htm:
The most accurate measure of your Maximum Heart Rate (MHR) is to have a stress test performed by a trained professional. Some fitness facilities can do this testing but your best choice would be to consult your doctor about taking a stress test under medical supervision.

This page will calculate your approximate MHR from several different formulas based on gender, age, weight and if known your Resting Heart Rate (RHR). The first set of calculations use the basic formula for MHR. Take the Fetal Heart Rate (FHR), which is 220 for men and 226 for women, and subtract your age:

MHR = FHR - age
Then you use standard percentage calculations to get the 60%, 70% and 80% values.
If you know your RHR the Karvonen Method is more accurate for figuring Target Heart Rate (THR). It uses the same basic MHR calculation but does a better job of estimating an individual's THRs by using the RHR to adjust the numbers.

80% THR = (MHR - RHR) * 0.8 + RHR
To discover your RHR you should take your pulse first thing in the morning before getting out of bed. Repeat this for five days in a row and average the five values to get a base value for your RHR.
The third calculation uses a formula developed by Dr. Dan Heil after studying 1500 walkers at the University of Massachusetts. This formula calculates MHR using the additional factor of body weight. For men only there is a constant value of 4.5 added to the final result. The formula looks like this for men. Leave off the addition of 4.5 for women:

211.415 - (0.5 * age) - (0.05 * weight in lbs) + 4.5
Every individual is different. The results of all these MHR calculations are approximate. The standard error for the basic formula can be as high as 12 to 24 beats per minute. Again, the best measure of your MHR is to have a supervised stress test.
Exercising while your heart rate is between 60% and 80% of your MHR is a good aerobic workout. It's recommended for building up a solid fitness base and burns fat that your body has stored rather than carbohydrates that you've recently consumed. A good aerobic workout between 60% and 80% of your MHR should also leave you refreshed and invigorated instead of tired and worn out.

Fill in the top section of the form and hit calculate to automatically fill in the bottom sections. . . .


RobP3 wrote:I don't get it. You want to protect your heart by putting more strain on it?

Yes. A modern, novel idea called 'exercise' or 'working out.' Proven by medical studies. ::) :)

85% of maximum heart rate is not necessarily "straining."
marvin8 wrote:Excerpt from American Heart Association Recommendations for Physical Activity in Adults,
http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/HealthyLi ... pK-I66nH7N:
American Heart Association wrote:Being physically active is important to prevent heart disease and stroke, the nation’s No. 1 and No. 5 killers. . . .
Last edited by marvin8 on Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stress Test - We may not push ourselves hard enough

Postby Ron Panunto on Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:29 am

Trick wrote:The "hard" foundation work should be done during ones "younger" years. After 50 go the moderation road in everything


Not sure what you mean by this Trick. I'm 24 years past your mark and still hit it as hard as I can, just about everyday. In my strength exercises, I either increase the weight, increase the reps, or cut down the rest period between sets on a weekly basis. I do this until injury, then back off and do it again. I guess I like to keep rolling that rock up the hill.

As far as martial arts, I do lines of the Xingyi elements and animals until I'm quite winded - this is my interval training. I practice my taiji weapon sets as low and quickly as I can. I practice the taiji barehand forms, matching breath to postures with frequent expressions of fajin.

So at age 74 I use muscle and joint injury as my upper limit to "moderation." To make progress (or in my case at my age to just stay even) you've got to eat some bitter or your just fooling yourself that you are fit, whatever your age.
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Re: Stress Test - We may not push ourselves hard enough

Postby johnwang on Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:11 am

RobP3 wrote:I don't get it. You want to protect your heart by putting more strain on it?

This is exactly my point. You can't protect your heart if you don't try to make it stronger. If you don't use it, you will lose it.

Trick wrote:The "hard" foundation work should be done during ones "younger" years. After 50 go the moderation road in everything

You don't have to worry about blood sugar, high blood pressure, heart problem before you are 50. It's after your are 60, you need to pay attention on it. Weight training can not only help your bone density, it also help to reduce sugar in your blood.
Last edited by johnwang on Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'm still allergy to "push".
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Re: Stress Test - We may not push ourselves hard enough

Postby Peacedog on Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:17 am

Here is a 91 year old deadlifting 130kg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO6X6j0OGQQ

Here is a 73 year old deadlifting 500lbs/227kg. While his lockout is weak, he made 90% of the lift.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtrYkIqxgr4

Either one of those lifts will get your heart rate well past 150.
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Re: Stress Test - We may not push ourselves hard enough

Postby johnwang on Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:31 am

Ron Panunto wrote:I do lines of the Xingyi elements and animals until I'm quite winded

What speed do you do your XingYi elements? If I do each XY move in 2 seconds, even if I may repeat 1000 times, it still won't make me winded. My conclusion is the way that XinYi elements was not designed to get "winded". On the other hands, all long fist kicking drills can make me winded. For "health" purpose, I may switch back to my long fist training instead of to continue my XY training.
Last edited by johnwang on Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
I'm still allergy to "push".
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Re: Stress Test - We may not push ourselves hard enough

Postby Nazgarn on Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:06 pm

This is my favorite part about training - attempting to combine TCMA with Western training, in particular Hight Intensity Interval Training (stationary bike, technique and calisthenics), with some light weight (dumbells) thrown in.

I can go into more detail if anyone is interested of some example training sessions if it is of any help.

I am currently 36 years of age and already starting to think if I go too hard will it be detrimental to my health overall in the long run.

Cheers!
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Re: Stress Test - We may not push ourselves hard enough

Postby willie on Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:52 pm

Peacedog wrote:Here is a 91 year old deadlifting 130kg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO6X6j0OGQQ

Here is a 73 year old deadlifting 500lbs/227kg. While his lockout is weak, he made 90% of the lift.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtrYkIqxgr4

Either one of those lifts will get your heart rate well past 150.

Holy crap, LOL!
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Re: Stress Test - We may not push ourselves hard enough

Postby Wanderingdragon on Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:27 am

Took my last stress test back in ‘08, I was 54, Dr.s told me it shouldn’t take more than fifteen minutes to get my heart rate up to max most people in 8 to 12, 17 minutes for me at maximum incline. It was me testing myself, I remember at the time reminding myself to breath properly, I had recently added a daily five mile run into my training, I had also been doing my Xinyi mile daily. I will emphasize again breath is not to be coordinated, it is to be circulated. Internal function is about breathing, the more fatigued you feel the more oxygen you must feed your muscle, this comes through deep breathing not coordinating the breath with action. It will only serve as a detriment to the heart muscle if we try to breath out with every exertion, this is a form of tension not relaxation, even power lifters will tell you you must breath, not to push out the weight but to feed the muscle, their hyperventilation before the lift is to store as much oxygen as they can, before their lift, there is a deep breath that is expelled in a controlled exhalation during the lift. Different activity takes different breath but the speed of fighting does not allow for coordinating breath with action, this is why internal arts practice slowly to learn to control the breath and maintain relaxation in the muscle the strength exerted should never be more than the necessary impact desired.
Last edited by Wanderingdragon on Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stress Test - We may not push ourselves hard enough

Postby Ron Panunto on Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:14 am

johnwang wrote:
Ron Panunto wrote:I do lines of the Xingyi elements and animals until I'm quite winded

What speed do you do your XingYi elements? If I do each XY move in 2 seconds, even if I may repeat 1000 times, it still won't make me winded. My conclusion is the way that XinYi elements was not designed to get "winded". On the other hands, all long fist kicking drills can make me winded. For "health" purpose, I may switch back to my long fist training instead of to continue my XY training.


It's not the speed of doing the elements that gets me winded John, but it is the way that I do it. I slowly inhale (using reverse breathing) and at the same time bowing my spine outward and twisting everything inward, and then exploding outward with 90% of breath compressing into dantien, and the other 10 % being expelled with a low guttural humph of breath. It takes considerable effort to inhale, twist the arms, legs and torso and to load the spinal bow.
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Re: Stress Test - We may not push ourselves hard enough

Postby yeniseri on Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:22 am

It is true.
Karvonnens Formula: 220-age x 55% (intensity) = training heart rate for 'healthy' people although your family doctor/exercise physiologist professional can point in the right direction.
if in a disease state, then 200-age x 55% but this again depends on heart condition. the % rate can decrease or increase based on the stress test outcomes

http://www.topendsports.com/fitness/kar ... ormula.htm

There are variations but some formulas get your resting HR (220-65) x intensity (x %) then that is your workout target. Pretty straightforward so just work through the formula to get an idea.
Last edited by yeniseri on Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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