First 2 hours class for new student

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First 2 hours class for new student

Postby johnwang on Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:08 pm

I have a new student today. Here are the class content for the 2 hours class.

1. 5 different entering strategies:

- Rhino guard.
- Double spears.
- Zombie guard.
- Octopus.
- Separate hands.

2. 4 different ways to use under hook.
3. 2 different ways to use over hook.
4. Uniform stance single leg.
5. Mirror stance single leg.

I have not taught any stance, or form. What's your opinion on this 2 hours teaching material?
I'm still allergy to "push".
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Re: First 2 hours class for new student

Postby Trick on Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 pm

At 13 I took my first Karate class although I had been able to punch out three teeth from two persons about a year before still in that Karate beginners class the first lesson was how to make a fist.
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Re: First 2 hours class for new student

Postby edededed on Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:59 pm

I think that you are very kind!

Traditionally, the strategy and applications were often taught much later (almost at the end).

In your class, your student already can use what he learned from day 1.
In a sense, it is maybe a more Western way of teaching - e.g. describe the objective, overall idea first, and then details later.
Traditional old Chinese way may have been to teach bit by bit, only teaching more when the old parts were mastered.
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Re: First 2 hours class for new student

Postby Trick on Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:55 am

edededed wrote:I think that you are very kind!

Traditionally, the strategy and applications were often taught much later (almost at the end).

In your class, your student already can use what he learned from day 1.
In a sense, it is maybe a more Western way of teaching - e.g. describe the objective, overall idea first, and then details later.
Traditional old Chinese way may have been to teach bit by bit, only teaching more when the old parts were mastered.

I experienced different, ok when I moved to China I already had may years of practice and knew some basic stuff maybe therefore I was taught "things" quite immediately things that goes deeper in understanding, but when I look back particularly at one group I was a little involved with in Sweden they seem to be on square one still.....Another(simple)example, if let's say one would go and live in Japan and study Karate one could reach Black belt level in two years but in Sweden would probably take at least five years.....now of course belts doesn't matter, it was just an simple example of my "West vs East" experience 8-)
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Re: First 2 hours class for new student

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:31 am

Sounds great!

If I were teaching a first class in a throwing art, I would also focus on falls.

For most people, falls are the most important technique they will ever learn in a martial arts class.
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Re: First 2 hours class for new student

Postby bartekb on Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:26 am

johnwang wrote:I have not taught any stance, or form. What's your opinion on this 2 hours teaching material?

I think its a lot of material,
recently I did 5 hours of 1 on 1 training in 5 sessions, having over 5 years of grappling experience, during those 5 hours we managed to cover
- 2 entering strategies for single leg takedow
- single leg takedown in 3 variants
- counters to most popular single leg defences

nd this for me was huge ammount of material, I will test it next months

we did concentrate on 1 side - so my start stance is always the same.
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Re: First 2 hours class for new student

Postby johnwang on Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:55 pm

bartekb wrote:we did concentrate on 1 side - so my start stance is always the same.

We train on 1 side only too. But we may train different techniques on different sides. As far as I remember, I have never switched sides in the ring or on the mat. Since I assume that my opponent may have different side, I prefer to train different entering strategies for uniform stance and mirror stance.
I'm still allergy to "push".
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Re: First 2 hours class for new student

Postby MaartenSFS on Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:22 pm

Sounds like a good first class. I'm sure that the rest will be good too. :)
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Re: First 2 hours class for new student

Postby everything on Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:51 am

I think in that first 2 hours, if I follow you correctly from previous explanations, I would learn:

- defense against head punches
- bridge to grappling
- some takedown
- takedown defense too?

It sounds great to me.
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Re: First 2 hours class for new student

Postby Trick on Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:09 am

Is it an intensive course? Is it an absolute beginners or more advanced class? They seem to be in a hurry!
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Re: First 2 hours class for new student

Postby suckinlhbf on Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:56 am

I use the first two hours to know how the new student moves. Only two moves - one to see how much they can stretch and make use of their body, and the second to see how they make use of their whole body to make a straight punch. Most of the time it will get them back to a hard basic training. It would be beneficial for their long term improvement knowing where to focus on.
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Re: First 2 hours class for new student

Postby GrandUltimate on Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:31 pm

That's a pretty neat first day of class.

My first day of SJ, also 2 hrs, was along the lines of:
-Warm up, Conditioning, Balance drills
-Basics: for me it was walking, diagonal strike, elbow locking, diagonal pull, neck surrounding.
-A bit more stretching, Rolling/Falling/etc
-Application drills
-Extra stuff (varies - can be applications on floor, joint locking, etc - for me it was key locks).

I like that your layout includes stuff like single leg and entering and engaging strategies from the start. Being a novice in wrestling and having little grappling instinct, it's the type of thing I really need more of because I don't yet feel confident in what to do when I have to engage my opponent, who is almost always more experienced. It also seems nice to start with some single leg stuff because it's something most grapplers are used to and I'd imagine you can use it in most rulesets.
Last edited by GrandUltimate on Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: First 2 hours class for new student

Postby bartekb on Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:43 am

We train on 1 side only too. But we may train different techniques on different sides. As far as I remember, I have never switched sides in the ring or on the mat. Since I assume that my opponent may have different side, I prefer to train different entering strategies for uniform stance and mirror stance.

this is exactly my approach - The beauty of single leg takedown is when you get the leg - its then same application just 2 mirror versions, same counters etc.
my approach to the problem was like that:
- I am heavy and tall, 6'4, 105kg and rarely fight bigger guys (I love to cos they are slow but not too many around:))
- I was looking for an universal takedown with jacket/gi and no-go, high percentage
- single leg does not require complicated grip fighting
- I fight with my strong side forward - right - it will stay like that
so:
1. I learned basic single leg grab depending if opponent has left or right forward, basic grips, then for a week I tried to apply in sparring
2 possible basic steps were: full step with left leg, grab opponents right leg, shorten stance with back left leg step first, step with right, grab opponents left leg.
2. I discovered how people defend when I grab leg, so next session I did 1. and added counters to defence, practiced on sparring, discovered I got guilotinned few times
3. I learned counter throw if Im caught in standing guilottine, practiced a bit more
counter that worked best for me was to allow them to come close to finish guillotine, one hand grabs under betwen legs, throw
4. I learned 2 more variations of single leg when leg is already taken
5. I have learned how to force opponent to have either left or right leg forward when fighting to get the leg

this was first time I approached the topic so 1>2>3 - I really like that approach now,

Mr Wang, any comments from you on single leg in general - will be much appreciated:)
Last edited by bartekb on Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First 2 hours class for new student

Postby johnwang on Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:36 am

bartekb wrote:Mr Wang, any comments from you on single leg in general - will be much appreciated:)

The best angle to get your opponent's leading leg is to line up your

- "back" foot with your opponent's both feet when you are in uniform stance (same side forward).
- "leading" foot with your opponent's both feet when you are in mirror stance (different side forward).

This way no matter how your opponent may move his leading leg, his leading leg will always be in your attacking range. It's always better to use a "pull" to set up the single leg, unless you want to use single leg to set up something else. In that case, you want your opponent to step back so you can step in and attack his other leg.
I'm still allergy to "push".
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Re: First 2 hours class for new student

Postby bartekb on Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:45 pm

thank you Mr Wang, thats really interesting,
It's always better to use a "pull" to set up the single leg, unless you want to use single leg to set up something else. In that case, you want your opponent to step back so you can step in and attack his other leg.

this is also quite a good advice - I did try something opposite - push a bit then when opponent reacts pull strong towards me and rotate - so he has to step one leg forward, then attack this leg.

what would be your preference if the initial single fails?
I found this most natural for me - done in slow exagerated version:)
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Last edited by bartekb on Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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