Chinese vs Western wrestling: same impulse, different execut

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Chinese vs Western wrestling: same impulse, different execut

Postby GrahamB on Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:01 am

Chinese vs Western wrestling: same impulse, different execution

http://www.atimes.com/chinese-vs-wester ... execution/

"After three years of reading and researching, experiencing, training, fighting, and competing, I came to the following conclusions.

1. The Chinese government is on an Olympic medal quest, pouring money into those sports where China has the best chance of winning, such as diving, ping pong, and badminton. China’s leaders probably see wrestling as a long shot at best, and thus do not wish to waste a lot of money on it. As for shuai jiao, because it is not an Olympic sport, it receives almost no attention from the government. Shuai jiao also fails to fulfill the government’s soft-power objectives. Both wushu and tai chi, unlike shuai jiao, are arts which can be showcased in movies and traveling shows sent to other countries around the world, or taught at Confucius Institutes and Chinese cultural centers.

2. The reasons why WWE and UFC have failed to break the China market are economic and cultural. Most of the money in WWE and UFC is earned through Pay-per-view, online gambling, high ticket prices, and merchandise sales. Chinese consumers are price-sensitive, do not buy much merchandise, and Pay-per-view and online gambling are almost non-existent in the country.

3. Finally, I determined that the major reasons for differences in wrestling rules, techniques and cultures between China and the US came down to competitiveness, aggression, and violence. The most popular sports in China are ping pong and badminton. Like wushu, these are neither aggressive nor violent. In the US, nearly 800 universities have American football teams, with over a million Americans playing on high school and college football teams. This suggests that American and western sports culture is far more aggressive and violent than Chinese sports culture."
"People in this country have had enough of experts" - Michael Gove, 2016
User avatar
GrahamB
Great Old One
 
Posts: 11364
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:30 pm

Re: Chinese vs Western wrestling: same impulse, different execut

Postby Graculus on Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:06 am

Don't forget basketball - super popular with a lot of the kids I teach. (University age, for the most part).

Graculus
Graculus
Anjing
 
Posts: 237
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:43 pm
Location: Kyoto, Japan

Re: Chinese vs Western wrestling: same impulse, different execut

Postby C.J.W. on Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:23 am

GrahamB wrote:This suggests that American and western sports culture is far more aggressive and violent than Chinese sports culture.


I agree. When I first immigrated from Taiwan to the U.S. as a kid, I couldn't, for the love of god, figure out why every guy at school was so crazy about football.
(In my eye, it was just a group of big dudes donning funny-looking helmets and shoulder pads trying to kill each other over an oval-shaped ball!)


I once read a story in a book about the early days of Western sports in China. It mentioned that when basketball was first introduced in China, a high-ranking government official made the following comment during the demonstration:
"Would someone please get those poor kids some more balls? Why are they all running around fighting over that one?" ;D ;)
C.J.W.
Wuji
 
Posts: 1683
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:02 am

Re: Chinese vs Western wrestling: same impulse, different execut

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:45 am

Isn't the fact that American foot ball takes 4 hrs to play a 20 minute game got something to do with it
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
wayne hansen
Wuji
 
Posts: 3198
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:52 pm

Re: Chinese vs Western wrestling: same impulse, different execut

Postby Trick on Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:01 am

If gambling at any scale was allowed in the Middle Kingdom many non Olympic activities would skyrocket here...... About "westerners" are more prone to take up aggressive sports I don't know, if we talk MA such as MMA Boxing or KickBoxing in Europe I got a feeling that it's more popular among people that trace their roots from a more southern and southeastern part of the world near Europe.......About wrestling, nowadays who want to see folk wrestling in the Olympics if one is not self involved in it? Glima was tried at the 1912 Stockholm Olympic but that's it, Judo has been around for some time but talks about delete it has been going around, even Greco-Roman wrestling facing a tough time as an Olympic sport......American football??,,Why not play real Rugby instead :)
Trick
Wuji
 
Posts: 1516
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:30 am

Re: Chinese vs Western wrestling: same impulse, different execut

Postby Trick on Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:09 am

wayne hansen wrote:Isn't the fact that American foot ball takes 4 hrs to play a 20 minute game got something to do with it

The good opurtunity for stadium vendors to sell a lot of beer and other goodies?.....
Trick
Wuji
 
Posts: 1516
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:30 am

Re: Chinese vs Western wrestling: same impulse, different execut

Postby Trick on Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:19 am

GrahamB wrote:
1. The Chinese government is on an Olympic medal quest, pouring money into those sports where China has the best chance of winning

I think this is a quite common approach in mosst countries? Or at least "sponsoring" young athletes that show promising results
Trick
Wuji
 
Posts: 1516
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:30 am

Re: Chinese vs Western wrestling: same impulse, different execut

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:51 am

Trick wrote:If gambling at any scale was allowed in the Middle Kingdom many non Olympic activities would skyrocket here...... About "westerners" are more prone to take up aggressive sports I don't know, if we talk MA such as MMA Boxing or KickBoxing in Europe I got a feeling that it's more popular among people that trace their roots from a more southern and southeastern part of the world near Europe.......About wrestling, nowadays who want to see folk wrestling in the Olympics if one is not self involved in it? Glima was tried at the 1912 Stockholm Olympic but that's it, Judo has been around for some time but talks about delete it has been going around, even Greco-Roman wrestling facing a tough time as an Olympic sport......American football??,,Why not play real Rugby instead :)


What do you consider real rugby,league or union
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
wayne hansen
Wuji
 
Posts: 3198
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:52 pm

Re: Chinese vs Western wrestling: same impulse, different execut

Postby Ian on Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:26 am

3. Finally, I determined that the major reasons for differences in wrestling rules, techniques and cultures between China and the US came down to competitiveness, aggression, and violence. The most popular sports in China are ping pong and badminton. Like wushu, these are neither aggressive nor violent. In the US, nearly 800 universities have American football teams, with over a million Americans playing on high school and college football teams. This suggests that American and western sports culture is far more aggressive and violent than Chinese sports culture."


This is why I respect Mongolian martial arts more than Chinese martial arts.

They compete in everything - judo, sambo, ssireum, sumo, bökh, freestyle, bjj - and do well.

They train hard and make zero excuses.

They learn fast, adapt quickly, and are far more concerned with what works than with tradition.





Ian
Great Old One
 
Posts: 5655
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:22 am

Re: Chinese vs Western wrestling: same impulse, different execut

Postby edededed on Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:34 pm

Besides aggressiveness, it is also a difference in how men are perceived, I think.

In America, men who want to be popular with the opposite sex head to the gym to pump iron.
In East Asia, men with huge muscles are strangely not that popular with the opposite sex.

As for pay-per-view - this is why the only time I saw a top-tier boxing match was when I was in China (it was the one where Tyson started biting off ears). It was just on TV, anyone could watch it.
User avatar
edededed
Great Old One
 
Posts: 3681
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:21 am

Re: Chinese vs Western wrestling: same impulse, different execut

Postby windwalker on Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:43 pm

edededed wrote:Besides aggressiveness, it is also a difference in how men are perceived, I think.

In America, men who want to be popular with the opposite sex head to the gym to pump iron.Done for their own perception
of themselves which does not always get the chicks.

In East Asia, men with huge muscles are strangely not that popular with the opposite sex.

But they are successful in making money, big money :o .
Which they can then use to spend on the the chicks...One might look at what is more useful.

Big muscles or big money. Each requires a lot of effort and dedication to achieve.

While the opposite sex may appreciate big muscles, they cant spend them. An old guy with money,,,always tends to get the chicks... over an old guy with no money and big muscles :P


As for pay-per-view - this is why the only time I saw a top-tier boxing match was when I was in China (it was the one where Tyson started biting off ears). It was just on TV, anyone could watch it.
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
rule 19
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 6954
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Re: Chinese vs Western wrestling: same impulse, different execut

Postby C.J.W. on Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:18 pm

edededed wrote:In America, men who want to be popular with the opposite sex head to the gym to pump iron.
In East Asia, men with huge muscles are strangely not that popular with the opposite sex.


Traditionally, in Chinese culture (as well as other East Asian cultures that were heavily influenced by the Chinese such as Japanese and Korean), physically attractive men were the ones who possessed boyish charms and a certain degree of female qualities such as fair skin and a slender built. Muscular men were usually considered as uneducated brutes with low social status because the physical traits they exhibited were commonly associated with poor laborers and farmers, and thus undesirable.

However, due to the powerful influence of Western mass media in recent years, I'd say the above perception is gradually changing. Nowadays, hitting the gym and showing off one's well-defined body have also become a trend in Asia, and men with shredded physiques are also deemed more desirable, especially among the younger generation.
Last edited by C.J.W. on Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
C.J.W.
Wuji
 
Posts: 1683
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:02 am

Re: Chinese vs Western wrestling: same impulse, different execut

Postby edededed on Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:59 am

It is of course not binary (black and white). In Asia, they like muscles, too - just not the huge, Hulk-type ones. One girl told me she likes "skinny-macho" guys - that's a fairly accurate way to put it, I think. The difference can be seen in the media for sure (comics, actors, etc.), too.

It could be because of the lack of protein drinks and such, though ;D
User avatar
edededed
Great Old One
 
Posts: 3681
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:21 am

Re: Chinese vs Western wrestling: same impulse, different execut

Postby Steve James on Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:04 am

Imo, it's much more complicated. It has more to do with what men think women want and what women actually choose. It also assumes, falsely, that women make one choice. There's more than one example of a woman with an older sugar daddy and a young stud, or two.

In animal societies with an alpha male who has a group of females, it's found that the females often sneak away with lower status males. If you have a harem, you have to keep an eye on 'em. They have their needs, too.

When a beautiful woman is walking with an un-muscular man, in the west, a lot of men will say "Why is she with him?" The point is: she knows. :)
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 17190
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: Chinese vs Western wrestling: same impulse, different execut

Postby vadaga on Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:24 am

Trick wrote:SNIP If gambling at any scale was allowed in the Middle KingdomSNIP


I submit the following: 1)Association football 2) Macao 3) mahjong 4)福利彩票 5) the Shanghai A shares market as evidence of gambling at scale in China
Last edited by vadaga on Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
善人和气一团
User avatar
vadaga
Wuji
 
Posts: 827
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:53 am
Location: 地球

Next

Return to Xingyiquan - Baguazhang - Taijiquan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest