Skill Development

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Skill Development

Postby johnwang on Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:35 pm

When you develop a MA technique, you can use the following method:

How to

- set up it,
- execute it,
- develop it,
- test it,
- enhance it,
- polish it,
- counter it,
- counter the counters,
- ...

What do you think about this method? Do you have a different suggestion?
Last edited by johnwang on Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Skill Development

Postby klonk on Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:11 pm

I think that covers it! I lay particular emphasis on how to counter it, and I try to see and explore all the weaknesses of the technique in question. That has the result of making me better understand when the technique is best used and when it would be better to do something else.
I define internal martial art as unusual muscle recruitment and leave it at that. If my definition is incomplete, at least it is correct so far as it goes.
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Re: Skill Development

Postby yeniseri on Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:08 pm

johnwang wrote:When you develop a MA technique, you can use the following method:

How to

- set up it,
- execute it,
- develop it,
- test it,
- enhance it,
- polish it,
- counter it,
- counter the counters,
- ...

What do you think about this method? Do you have a different suggestion?


Sir, your logic and proper training regimen confuses the many with its obvious structure. method and without madnessQ ;D
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Re: Skill Development

Postby .Q. on Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:24 am

What's the difference between enhance and polish?
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Re: Skill Development

Postby MaartenSFS on Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:55 am

I would only add that the first step is to have your arse kicked by your teacher with the new technique, then have it taught to you before you go trying to use it on your peers. When you can use it on your teacher you have really gained the skill.. ;)

If it's a difficult or low-percentage technique it may be necessary to drill it with a compliant partner first.
Last edited by MaartenSFS on Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Skill Development

Postby johnwang on Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:12 am

.Q. wrote:What's the difference between enhance and polish?

enhance - weight equipment training, for example, single head knee seize training.
polish - solo drill training, for example, knee seize solo drill training.
Last edited by johnwang on Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Skill Development

Postby marvin8 on Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:27 pm

johnwang wrote:When you develop a MA technique, you can use the following method:

How to

- set up it,
- execute it,
- develop it,
- test it,
- enhance it,
- polish it,
- counter it,
- counter the counters,
- ...

What do you think about this method? Do you have a different suggestion?

johnwang wrote:
.Q. wrote:What's the difference between enhance and polish?

enhance - weight equipment training, for example, single head knee seize training.
polish - solo drill training, for example, knee seize solo drill training.

It's not only what one does but how one does it.

For example, both Xu (MMA) and Ding (wing chun) drilled and trained their "MA technique." However, Xu won their fight handily.

The question is how did they train (e.g., forms, chi sau, shadowboxing, pad work, etc.)? Which "method(s)" were the most effective in delivering their "MA technique?"
Last edited by marvin8 on Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Skill Development

Postby .Q. on Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:08 pm

johnwang wrote:
.Q. wrote:What's the difference between enhance and polish?

enhance - weight equipment training, for example, single head knee seize training.
polish - solo drill training, for example, knee seize solo drill training.

So "enhance" is more on strength and polish is more focused on the skill aspect?
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Re: Skill Development

Postby GrandUltimate on Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:50 pm

I like it. I actually saved an image you once posted from like 2014 or so of the skill tree development process in the form of a tree chart thing. It's always nice to look back at it here and there to check my own practice. Hope you don't mind me holding on to it.

Image
Last edited by GrandUltimate on Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Skill Development

Postby johnwang on Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:50 am

I had a new student in my last class. I asked my new student to punch my old student. I asked my old student to apply head lock right after the 2nd punches (cross, or hook) that his opponent delievered. We tested this for about 10 rounds.

I'll use similar test for

- single leg,
- foot sweep,
- rhino guard,
- double spear,
- zombie arms,
- ...

I think this kind of test can be good for all CMA techniques. IMO, if you can't apply your technique within 1 minute, your technique may not be good enough.
Last edited by johnwang on Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Skill Development

Postby wiesiek on Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:11 am

I would set time measurements of such test to the :
-10 sec., for any trained technique ,
and
3 sec., for the favor tech., - "tokui waza"
if we are speakin` about experienced vs novice .
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Re: Skill Development

Postby Overlord on Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:21 am

johnwang wrote:When you develop a MA technique, you can use the following method:

How to

- set up it,
- execute it,
- develop it,
- test it,
- enhance it,
- polish it,
- counter it,
- counter the counters,
- ...

What do you think about this method? Do you have a different suggestion?


John,
What do you think of relax it?
I found relaxing really is the hardest.
Relax but unyielding.
Cheers
-saber-


肘不離肋,手不離心
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Re: Skill Development

Postby marvin8 on Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:54 am

Overlord wrote:
johnwang wrote:When you develop a MA technique, you can use the following method:

How to

- set up it,
- execute it,
- develop it,
- test it,
- enhance it,
- polish it,
- counter it,
- counter the counters,
- ...

What do you think about this method? Do you have a different suggestion?


John,
What do you think of relax it?
I found relaxing really is the hardest.
Relax but unyielding.
Cheers

IMO, relaxing is a skill or attribute, which is more relevant to the title of the thread. In addition to relaxing, one still needs to learn how to relax while executing a MA technique (e.g., throw, trip, punch, kick, combination, etc.) in pressure situations.

Given the subject, this thread title should be, "MA Technique Development."
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Re: Skill Development

Postby Overlord on Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:19 am

《鬼谷子本經陰符七術》損悅法靈蓍損悅法靈蓍
損悅者,機危之決也。事有適然,物有成敗,機危之動,不可不察。故聖人以無為待有德,言察辭,合於事。悅者,知之也。損者,行之也。損之說之,物有不可者,聖人不為之辭。故智者不以言失人之言,故辭不煩而心不虛,志不亂而意不邪。當其難易,而後為之謀;因自然之道以為實。圓者不行,方者不止,是謂大功。益之損之,皆為之辭。用分威散勢之權,以見其悅威,其機危乃為之決。故善損悅者,誓若決水於千仞之堤,轉圓石於萬仞之穀。而能行此者,形勢不得不然也。

損 means reduce
悅, also called 益 means gains

The timing of gain and reduction is crucial.
-saber-


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Re: Skill Development

Postby Strange on Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:54 pm

Powerful stuff, Andy
Thanks for sharing :)
天官指星 单对月 风摆荷叶 影成双

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