the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

A friend of mine, an orthopedic physician, tells me, that the knee as a hinge joint doesn't need any restrictions in bending as long as twisting is avoided.
More important might be the kua, the spine positioning
I train more than 30 yrs, with my knees often extending beyond the the famous rule, never any problems.
Quite contrary, my bad skiing knee was healed within 5 yrs. of practice.

The knee bend rule is not to protect the knee but for combat stability
Right and left and sticking to the hinge is more important
Feet follow the square hands follow the circle

There are no absolute rules here, indeed. The “knee not beyond the toes in front stance” principle is a rule of thumb (rule of toe…?) that is usually useful, especially for beginners, but not an absolute necessity. Doing a grand plié can be fine for the knees (and great for the leg muscles) if you do it right. I can refer to my own 8 years of ballet training for that. (No, that's not me in the photo. Neither of them).



What’s more problematic is when the vertical line down from the hip joint (which also marks the greater part of the load created by total body weight) no longer ‘falls’ in the heel or the centre of the foot (up to and including the yong chun point/Kidney 1). The knee itself can be fine beyond the knee in vertical terms as long as the inguinal crease goes deeper with the stance, no problem. But if this vertical line goes further forwards, beyond the toes, with the hip itself pushing forwards instead of sinking down, then the knee joint is subject to stresses that otherwise would not occur. Try it, you can feel it . As said, that may be fine for some people but for others this is where the knee problems start or get worse if this is done habitually.

wayne hansen wrote:The knee bend rule is not to protect the knee but for combat stability

For sure, and if the knee is too far forward it dramatically decreases speed and smoothness of stepping, in every direction.

Right and left and sticking to the hinge is more important
Feet follow the square hands follow the circle

Not sure what you mean there, Wayne. Maybe I'm on the same page, but unfamiliar with this terminology. Like to elaborate?

wayne hansen wrote:So if you do tai chi incorrectly you will get bad results

In this case it is the question of using brute force against the weight of the body that is all or simply an example of double weighted. Stiffen up the ankle and hip joints, and the force sort of push the knee outward. Most athletes should have enough muscles in getting up from an one legged squat but not when it is done slowly as in competitive Taijiquan.

Passive Range of Motion (Knee Joint)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeF3Hmw7k3U

TTT

I
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Knee Rotation in Classical Dancers during the Grand Plié

Margaret A. Barnes, M.A., T.Dip. (RAD), Donna Krasnow, M.S., Susan J. Tupling, Ph.D., and Martin Thomas, Ph.D.

Medical Problems of Performing Artists, December 2000.

http://www.citraining.com/Knee-Rotation.html