Empty Force Challenge

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Empty Force Challenge

Postby oragami_itto on Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:33 am

klonk wrote:Fight sports are big money enterprises. If LKJ were a thing, fight promoters would be scouring the world to find it. Not that it would be used openly, for that would spoil the show. It would be used in just that little moment when it would be really fortuitous if my opponent's balance went just a sixteenth farther back toward his heel...


The lkj guy would actually be a corner coach
"This principle is very obvious and requires no further elaboration."
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Re: Empty Force Challenge

Postby klonk on Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:10 pm

oragami_itto wrote:
klonk wrote:Fight sports are big money enterprises. If LKJ were a thing, fight promoters would be scouring the world to find it. Not that it would be used openly, for that would spoil the show. It would be used in just that little moment when it would be really fortuitous if my opponent's balance went just a sixteenth farther back toward his heel...


The lkj guy would actually be a corner coach


Oooh, excellent point! :)
I define internal martial art as unusual muscle recruitment and leave it at that. If my definition is incomplete, at least it is correct so far as it goes.
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Re: Empty Force Challenge

Postby Greg J on Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:29 pm

Following this thread made me think of two things...

First, the old story by Carl Sagan called "The Dragon In My Garage." Here it is:

"A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage"

Suppose I seriously make such an assertion to you. Surely you'd want to check it out, see for yourself. There have been innumerable stories of dragons over the centuries, but no real evidence. What an opportunity!

"Show me," you say. I lead you to my garage. You look inside and see a ladder, empty paint cans, an old tricycle--but no dragon.

"Where's the dragon?" you ask.

"Oh, she's right here," I reply, waving vaguely. "I neglected to mention that she's an invisible dragon."

You propose spreading flour on the floor of the garage to capture the dragon's footprints.

"Good idea," I say, "but this dragon floats in the air."

Then you'll use an infrared sensor to detect the invisible fire.

"Good idea, but the invisible fire is also heatless."

You'll spray-paint the dragon and make her visible.

"Good idea, but she's an incorporeal dragon and the paint won't stick."

And so on. I counter every physical test you propose with a special explanation of why it won't work.

Now, what's the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all? If there's no way to disprove my contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it, what does it mean to say that my dragon exists? ... Claims that cannot be tested, assertions immune to disproof are veridically worthless, whatever value they may have in inspiring us or in exciting our sense of wonder. (p 171).

Second, a story I heard about a Tibetan lama. This particular Lama met an Indian yogi when he first arrived from Tibet. The yogi said to the lama, let me show you how I can levitate during meditation - it took me 20 years to perfect. This yogi went into meditation and started levitating just as he said he could. Once he finished, the lama who had been patiently sitting there watching, said to him: "you have wasted 20 years of your life learning a useless trick. You should have spent this time meditating on compassion. Compassion is far more useful!"

Best,
Greg
Last edited by Greg J on Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Empty Force Challenge

Postby oragami_itto on Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:38 am

Greg J wrote:
Second, a story I heard about a Tibetan lama. This particular Lama met an Indian yogi when he first arrived from Tibet. The yogi said to the lama, let me show you how I can levitate during meditation - it took me 20 years to perfect. This yogi went into meditation and started levitating just as he said he could. Once he finished, the lama who had been patiently sitting there watching, said to him: "you have wasted 20 years of your life learning a useless trick. You should have spent this time meditating on compassion. Compassion is far more useful!"

Best,
Greg


I like that one, thanks for sharing
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-Yang Cheng Fu
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Re: Empty Force Challenge

Postby Trick on Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:47 am

Greg J wrote:Following this thread made me think of two things...

First, the old story by Carl Sagan called "The Dragon In My Garage." Here it is:

"A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage"

Suppose I seriously make such an assertion to you. Surely you'd want to check it out, see for yourself. There have been innumerable stories of dragons over the centuries, but no real evidence. What an opportunity!

"Show me," you say. I lead you to my garage. You look inside and see a ladder, empty paint cans, an old tricycle--but no dragon.

"Where's the dragon?" you ask.

"Oh, she's right here," I reply, waving vaguely. "I neglected to mention that she's an invisible dragon."

You propose spreading flour on the floor of the garage to capture the dragon's footprints.

"Good idea," I say, "but this dragon floats in the air."

Then you'll use an infrared sensor to detect the invisible fire.

"Good idea, but the invisible fire is also heatless."

You'll spray-paint the dragon and make her visible.

"Good idea, but she's an incorporeal dragon and the paint won't stick."

And so on. I counter every physical test you propose with a special explanation of why it won't work.

Now, what's the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all? If there's no way to disprove my contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it, what does it mean to say that my dragon exists? ... Claims that cannot be tested, assertions immune to disproof are veridically worthless, whatever value they may have in inspiring us or in exciting our sense of wonder. (p 171).

Second, a story I heard about a Tibetan lama. This particular Lama met an Indian yogi when he first arrived from Tibet. The yogi said to the lama, let me show you how I can levitate during meditation - it took me 20 years to perfect. This yogi went into meditation and started levitating just as he said he could. Once he finished, the lama who had been patiently sitting there watching, said to him: "you have wasted 20 years of your life learning a useless trick. You should have spent this time meditating on compassion. Compassion is far more useful!"

Best,
Greg

Maybe Sagan believed there was an “reptile spirit” in the basement(underworld). Turn his name Sagan around and you get Nagas. Nagas : Serpent Cult, Serpent Beings. Ties with Tibetan/Indian (lamas/yogis) - https://www.deliriumsrealm.com/nagas/ https://www.thoughtco.com/naga-449846 - Empty Force lead to the strangest places :)
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Re: Empty Force Challenge

Postby Giles on Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:13 am

oragami_itto wrote:
Greg J wrote:
Second, a story I heard about a Tibetan lama. This particular Lama met an Indian yogi when he first arrived from Tibet. The yogi said to the lama, let me show you how I can levitate during meditation - it took me 20 years to perfect. This yogi went into meditation and started levitating just as he said he could. Once he finished, the lama who had been patiently sitting there watching, said to him: "you have wasted 20 years of your life learning a useless trick. You should have spent this time meditating on compassion. Compassion is far more useful!"

Best,
Greg


I like that one, thanks for sharing


Me too.
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