Creating disciples

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Creating disciples

Postby windwalker on Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:49 pm

There is no criteria for becoming whats called a master other then being acknowledged by
others who've achieved the status by the community at large or the group/discipline they interact in as being one.

In all ancient cultures, whether Eastern or Western, the role of a teacher is very important. Teachers are considered the icons and role models of the communities they lived in. They are the elders, imbued with wisdom and virtue from much learning and experience. They initiate the younger generation into the secrets and mysteries of life.



In modern times, most of the role of the teachers and elders has been taken over by the educational system where school teachers and lecturers are paid to do their job. The traditional respect and sacredness of the elders is very diminished. Nevertheless, school teachers still command a certain level of respect.

In traditional communities, the teacher commands more respect than in urbanised and modern communities. Similarly, teachers of traditional arts command more respect.

Because of the way of life in the West, Tai Chi Chuan teachers have to ply their art in a commercial way. Students pay a certain set fee for class instructions, just like any other classes. This dilutes the respect that are due to teachers. Students think “We pay you, so you have to teach us. That is the end of it. No more, no less.” This is a sad state of affairs.

In Chinese martial arts and secret lore, there is a difference between a student (shue sheng) and a disciple (tu di). This is related to the difference between a teacher (lao shi) and a master (shi fu).

A student is someone who is learning something from a teacher. While the relation is sacred, and there are mutual obligations between the student and the teacher, there is no commitment between them.

A disciple, on the other hand, has committed himself to the master, and the art of his master. The disciple has committed to entering and mastering a secret branch of knowledge and has requested the master to accept him into the arcane path. The relationship is very sacred and the obligations are binding.


Upon entering this sacred master-disciple relationship, the disciple acknowledges that the teacher is his master in the art, who he serves as the master as far as the art is concerned. This should not be misunderstood to mean “master” in the sense of a master and a slave. A “shifu” is not the dictator of the disciple’s life in everything. Disciples are not slaves for the master to use and abuse at every whim and fancy.

The community of the master’s disciples is not a cult group.


Disciples also have to assist in the further development of the master. For example, the master may wish to undergo further training in particular aspects of the art to attain higher levels of attainment so the disciples have to assist the master by, for example, being a training partner, or building some equipment of a room for him to engage in his secret practices.

If the master is in retreat for intensive training, the disciples have to ensure he has adequate provisions, and prevent other people from entering his premises to disturb him. As an example, the great Tai Chi Chuan master Cheng Man Ching (1901 – 1975) of Taiwan developed his Nei Gong with the aid of his live-in disciple William Chen. Many other Tai Chi Chuan masters developed higher skills with the assistance of disciples who served as their training partners. In turn, after the master has attained higher skills, he would teach the disciples his new insights into the art. Thus, the relationship between the master and disciple is a symbiotic one of mutual assistance.

“Help me to master and develop this skill further so that I may teach the skill to you”.

http://www.yellowbamboohk.com/tai_chi/t ... nship.html


What was not mentioned or maybe overlooked is that what is being taught can be used against the one teaching it.
There has to be some relationship that should prevent them from doing so, although in the past its happened with different
masters...Kinda why not everyone is a disciple, either asked or wants to be.

Not all masters want or take disciples formally,,,in formally they do and often make it known that
they are the teacher ect of this person...In modern times with the family systems of taiji this aspect has
been codified with organizations developed to maintain control and confer status.

For most its quite hard to be acknowledge as a representative of that particular family style with the exception of family members who are bornn Into the tradition of the family.

Which is why I sometimes ask what makes this or that person representative of "taiji" other then the fact that the person
says they are......and then goes out use this for their own publicity in ways that in most cases fail.

Those in the art understand that for the most part these people only represent themselves and not the body of art that they say they do.
Q pubic dosn't get or maybe understand this,,,makes for good ratings or brings money to the gate for those promoting it...win or lose

money is made....nice gig
Last edited by windwalker on Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:51 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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