The advantage of hand coordinate with foot landing

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: The advantage of hand coordinate with foot landing

Postby windwalker on Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:35 pm

johnwang wrote:The preying mantis "monkey stance" use foot landing and strike at the same time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN7gP3J ... e=youtu.be


Yes, teacher Brendan Lai, was very quick useing this. I was thinking more along the lines of what some call crushing step used in bong bo.

Bruce Lee, was said to have use fencing as his model of stepping for entering
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
rule 19
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 6951
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Re: The advantage of hand coordinate with foot landing

Postby Steve James on Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:59 pm

Do you step every time you punch?
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 17190
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: The advantage of hand coordinate with foot landing

Postby oragami_itto on Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:09 pm

Steve James wrote:Do you step every time you punch?

I've been thinking the same thing.

I think the disadvantage of either method is that the power clearly and obviously grows, peaks, and dies. It's a fundamentally different paradigm of power generation than taijiquan
Last edited by oragami_itto on Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"This principle is very obvious and requires no further elaboration."
-Yang Cheng Fu
User avatar
oragami_itto
Wuji
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:11 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: The advantage of hand coordinate with foot landing

Postby johnwang on Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:16 pm

Steve James wrote:Do you step every time you punch?

If you are

- inside of your opponent's kicking range, your opponent can kick you.
- outside of your opponent's kicking range, you have to enter that kicking range before your fist can land on his face.

To assume that your opponent is always within your push hand range is not realistic.
Last edited by johnwang on Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm still allergy to "push".
johnwang
Great Old One
 
Posts: 8617
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:26 pm

Re: The advantage of hand coordinate with foot landing

Postby klonk on Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:19 pm

Bringing Western boxing's right cross punch into this discussion is a trifle confusing, for in Eastern terms it is neither a stepping punch nor a standing punch. It is a wonderful hybrid, one of the best punches ever, but hard to compare across the board with other punches. Let me explain.

The cross punch involves a definite weight transfer. In the version that was most commonly taught way back when I was learning it, the right heel rises off the canvas while you torque inward on the ball of your foot. That is a step, or serves like a step. Think of punching with the follow-step in CMA. It also urges the trunk to rotate to the left.

Then something weird and interesting happens, the hip and shoulders torque as the weight descends to the left foot. So it is weight transfer, weight drop and body torque all at once. The nearest Eastern analog that comes to mind is the double hip punch (Consterdine Special), for in both cases there is a rotary momentum around the left leg, but the boxing cross is more compact and, obviously, well integrated into the rest of boxing's system of movements.
I define internal martial art as unusual muscle recruitment and leave it at that. If my definition is incomplete, at least it is correct so far as it goes.
User avatar
klonk
Great Old One
 
Posts: 6551
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 11:46 am

Re: The advantage of hand coordinate with foot landing

Postby marvin8 on Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:45 pm

Can anyone show combinations being done, at a normal speed, with every punch impacting "during your foot landing," especially when an opponent is moving?

Here is a person doing that against a heavy bag. It doesn't look effective:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GI6Epznm_s
Last edited by marvin8 on Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
marvin8
Wuji
 
Posts: 1312
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:30 pm

Re: The advantage of hand coordinate with foot landing

Postby Steve James on Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:17 pm

To assume that your opponent is always within your push hand range is not realistic.


This has nothing to do with push hands. If an opponent is not within range, how I punch is irrelevant. My question was about how someone would punch with every step. It's possible to punch without stepping. A punch with a step will, imo, be more powerful. Turning the body will add more power.

A jab in western boxing is a single straight punch, usually with a step. However, an good boxer can use a double or triple jab, using a single step. Boxers are also taught to use a (left or right) jab - hook combination. But then there's the basic left jab - right cross. Both of these combinations utilize the body at least as much as the legs, Uppercuts, one might argue, depend more on the legs.

Anyway, turning the body is fundamental for a decent hook. And, technically, the front leg pivots, not lands, when a hook is thrown. As I've said, I think the transference of mass to point of impact is the most important thing. Since I study tcc, I'd say that my legs propel my body's mass and I try to transfer that to my hand/leg/whatever.

In terms of punching power, per se, imo the issue is how to generate the most power using the mass that I've got.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 17190
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: The advantage of hand coordinate with foot landing

Postby johnwang on Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:58 pm

Steve James wrote: It's possible to punch without stepping.

I assume we are still talking about training here. In training, do we assume that

1. we always have to step in?
2. we never have to step in?
3. both 1 and 2?
Last edited by johnwang on Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I'm still allergy to "push".
johnwang
Great Old One
 
Posts: 8617
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:26 pm

Re: The advantage of hand coordinate with foot landing

Postby windwalker on Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:00 pm

we used to use small cement post to practice this. Each step was a punch...
the 45 degree horse, along with whats called triangle in/out stepping made the punching and stepping way very different
from some other styles.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq4ufTDHpF8
rule 19
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 6951
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Re: The advantage of hand coordinate with foot landing

Postby johnwang on Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:09 pm

Hand and foot coordination is easy to see in this clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQZ3xn-UmjI
I'm still allergy to "push".
johnwang
Great Old One
 
Posts: 8617
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:26 pm

Re: The advantage of hand coordinate with foot landing

Postby marvin8 on Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:33 pm

windwalker wrote:we used to use small cement post to practice this. Each step was a punch...
the 45 degree horse, along with whats called triangle in/out stepping made the punching and stepping way very different
from some other styles.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq4ufTDHpF8

Here Hop gar Grandmaster David Chin punches, "after your foot landing" at :15, :18:, 20, :25, :30, :31, :32, :46, :47, :49, :52, :56, :58, and 1:03:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKDgdvEa4S4
User avatar
marvin8
Wuji
 
Posts: 1312
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:30 pm

Re: The advantage of hand coordinate with foot landing

Postby johnwang on Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:52 pm

Here is another hand coordinate with foot Baji form.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OqWUFOtIHc
I'm still allergy to "push".
johnwang
Great Old One
 
Posts: 8617
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:26 pm

Re: The advantage of hand coordinate with foot landing

Postby windwalker on Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:05 pm

marvin8 wrote:Here Hop gar Grandmaster David Chin punches, "after your foot landing" at :15, :18:, 20, :25, :30, :31, :32, :46, :47, :49, :52, :56, :58, and 1:03:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKDgdvEa4S4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKDgdvEa4S4


wow didn't know you knew hop gar too, very cool

care to talk about some of the foot work
why and how its used....
rule 19
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 6951
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Re: The advantage of hand coordinate with foot landing

Postby marvin8 on Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:17 pm

windwalker wrote:
marvin8 wrote:Here Hop gar Grandmaster David Chin punches, "after your foot landing" at :15, :18:, 20, :25, :30, :31, :32, :46, :47, :49, :52, :56, :58, and 1:03:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKDgdvEa4S4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKDgdvEa4S4


wow didn't know you knew hop gar too, very cool

care to talk about some of the foot work
why and how its used....

No. I rather stay closer to the topic. However, I do care to correct punches to "attacks."
User avatar
marvin8
Wuji
 
Posts: 1312
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:30 pm

Re: The advantage of hand coordinate with foot landing

Postby Trick on Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:04 pm

Steve James wrote:Do you step every time you punch?

One could maybe say the mechanics of stepping is there even if punching from an stationary stance, pushing with the feet’s (a forward and backward push) against the ground, slightly dropping and rebounding in the knees(maybe not done while stepping)
Trick
Wuji
 
Posts: 1516
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:30 am

PreviousNext

Return to Xingyiquan - Baguazhang - Taijiquan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest