3 Ways To Practice tai Chi

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: 3 Ways To Practrice tai Chi

Postby Trick on Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:56 am

Bao wrote:Or even common sparring...

Common sparring ? Wrestling, Kick boxing or a combination of such or a specific Taiji free sparring ?
Trick
Wuji
 
Posts: 1516
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:30 am

Re: 3 Ways To Practrice tai Chi

Postby Bao on Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:12 am

Trick wrote:
Bao wrote:Or even common sparring...

Common sparring ? Wrestling, Kick boxing or a combination of such or a specific Taiji free sparring ?


"Common" sparring might not be the best description. Most I like sparring using tai chi strategy against non Tai Chi stylists. Or against a tai chi player that just do normal, general sparring. But IME it's hard to find good sparring partners in Tai Chi circles, so it's better to look around and meet people from other styles. Good sparring partners are normally not biased or influenced by qi woo-woo nonsense. :P
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog)
- Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert
- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
Bao
Great Old One
 
Posts: 6499
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: High up north

Re: 3 Ways To Practrice tai Chi

Postby MaartenSFS on Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:25 am

In China I met a lot of Taiji masters. I wouldn't hesitate to say that it was by far the most common martial art (and I'm not talking about those that claim to do it just for health). Of those that only practised Taijiquan I never met any that could fight. Some were amazing at Tuishou. About half taught in the "monk style" and I really felt sorry for those students. There can't be a less efficient way of learning to fight. 99.9% of those students could barely do any Tuishou, even, though many claimed to be studying a martial art. Many had been learning for over ten years. I feel that the best approach is to save the "monk" stuff for the latter stages, as it was always intended to be. According to my Master, who travelled around China and met and/or learned from many, many masters, Taijiquan was taught in a similar way to Xingyiquan and Baguazhang. Lots of hard work, sweating, line drills with weights etc. The soft way of doings things leads to nothing but softness. Cotton without the steel..
User avatar
MaartenSFS
Wuji
 
Posts: 1976
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:22 pm
Location: Holt, Michigan

Re: 3 Ways To Practrice tai Chi

Postby RobP3 on Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:34 am

MaartenSFS wrote:. I feel that the best approach is to save the "monk" stuff for the latter stages, as it was always intended to be. According to my Master, who travelled around China and met and/or learned from many, many masters, Taijiquan was taught in a similar way to Xingyiquan and Baguazhang. Lots of hard work, sweating, line drills with weights etc. The soft way of doings things leads to nothing but softness. Cotton without the steel..


While you always need a balance, I find that getting rid of unnecessary stress and tension at the start of the process leads to better results later on. Also means less training injuries, too
"Remember, if your life seems dull and boring - it is" Derek & Clive
www.systemauk.com
RobP3
Wuji
 
Posts: 631
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:30 am
Location: UK

Re: 3 Ways To Practrice tai Chi

Postby Rhen on Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:19 am

was always taught to practice it with martial intent otherwise your just a sick monk trying to be a warrior. ;D
Rhen
Anjing
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 9:20 am

Re: 3 Ways To Practrice tai Chi

Postby Trick on Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:26 am

Bao wrote:
Trick wrote:
Bao wrote:Or even common sparring...

Common sparring ? Wrestling, Kick boxing or a combination of such or a specific Taiji free sparring ?


"Common" sparring might not be the best description. Most I like sparring using tai chi strategy against non Tai Chi stylists. Or against a tai chi player that just do normal, general sparring. But IME it's hard to find good sparring partners in Tai Chi circles, so it's better to look around and meet people from other styles. Good sparring partners are normally not biased or influenced by qi woo-woo nonsense. :P

Now days I’m not really interesting in free-sparring anymore, have not done anything such for for quite a while except for free push hand kind of. Years back I knew some boxers, and sometimes joined in with some old Karate pals...that was basically how as an Taijiquanist I got to do my “regular” sparring.
Trick
Wuji
 
Posts: 1516
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:30 am

Re: 3 Ways To Practice tai Chi

Postby MaartenSFS on Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:34 pm

I didn't get a chance to finish my thoughts this morning but I wanted to add that now that I have learned pretty much everything that I wanted to learn and have some years of sparring and fencing under my belt and feel that I am competent enough I am becoming more interested in self-cultivation. Perhaps it's also because I spent so many years at the whim of other people's schedules and now there isn't a constant flow of training partners every day that I am naturally gravitating towards solo training like that. Or perhaps its because I trained so hard for so many years that I feel like training at that intensity now doesn't offer the same benefits now that I have progressed further and diversifying my regimen is the next logical step to further improve. I'm actually considering to add some Qigong like exercises to my curriculum. When I busy preoccupied with learning how to fight I could never bring myself to train it much.. :-[
User avatar
MaartenSFS
Wuji
 
Posts: 1976
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:22 pm
Location: Holt, Michigan

Re: 3 Ways To Practice tai Chi

Postby johnwang on Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:54 pm

All 3 ways are forward search methods. In AI, besides the forward search, there is backward search and bi-direction search.

Backward search - I want to develop some effective entering strategies and finish strategies. How can I train Taiji to get there? Which path should I take? What basic do I need to develop first.
I'm still allergy to "push".
johnwang
Great Old One
 
Posts: 8617
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:26 pm

Re: 3 Ways To Practice tai Chi

Postby johnwang on Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:59 pm

MaartenSFS wrote:I am becoming more interested in self-cultivation.

When people talk about "self-cultivation", I truly don't understand what they are talking about.

When I train myself at home, I try to maintain my fighting skill/ability. I try to polish and enhance it daily. This is why I don't have time to do anything else. Try not to lose what I already have can be a full time job.
Last edited by johnwang on Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm still allergy to "push".
johnwang
Great Old One
 
Posts: 8617
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:26 pm

Re: 3 Ways To Practice tai Chi

Postby MaartenSFS on Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:19 pm

I suppose that I mean to train a lot of the things that I learned but didn't have time for or I didn't immediately see the benefit of adding it to my system to improve aspects of my fighting. Things like Zhanzhuang for my overall structure and balance and lots of Gongfa like hitting things with my fingers, as an example, for very specific results - let's call it heavily specialised training. I'm constantly thinking about what I train and what exactly I'm getting out of it. If I can't see a clear answer then I remove it. Later I may come to a new understanding and add it into a new place. Everything is systemised and compartmentalised. There is no time or energy to waste on training things with no clear results.
User avatar
MaartenSFS
Wuji
 
Posts: 1976
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:22 pm
Location: Holt, Michigan

Re: 3 Ways To Practice tai Chi

Postby Trick on Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:27 pm

MaartenSFS wrote:I didn't get a chance to finish my thoughts this morning but I wanted to add that now that I have learned pretty much everything that I wanted to learn and have some years of sparring and fencing under my belt and feel that I am competent enough I am becoming more interested in self-cultivation. Perhaps it's also because I spent so many years at the whim of other people's schedules and now there isn't a constant flow of training partners every day that I am naturally gravitating towards solo training like that. Or perhaps its because I trained so hard for so many years that I feel like training at that intensity now doesn't offer the same benefits now that I have progressed further and diversifying my regimen is the next logical step to further improve. I'm actually considering to add some Qigong like exercises to my curriculum. When I busy preoccupied with learning how to fight I could never bring myself to train it much.. :-[

You studied LiuheXinYiquan & Xingyiquan ? Hold on to the basics from these MA’s and daily polish them, find some friends with who you can practice sparring exercises , that’s all the Qigong you need
Trick
Wuji
 
Posts: 1516
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:30 am

Re: 3 Ways To Practrice tai Chi

Postby Bao on Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:28 am

Trick wrote:Now days I’m not really interesting in free-sparring anymore,


Me neither. I don't bother about "fighting" or think in those terms nowadays. I like practicing PH and applications to continue to refine very basic tai chi principles. I feel sort of at home with the more abstract and philosophical approach to reality in Tai chi.

Years back I knew some boxers, and sometimes joined in with some old Karate pals...that was basically how as an Taijiquanist I got to do my “regular” sparring.


Seems like a good approach. Can't see how you could do any better than that. I like sparring against regular boxers, as well as against thai-boxers and MMA practitioners. Good to practice under pressure, while learning about how they "think" and good to get those healthy doses of reality checks. 8-)
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog)
- Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert
- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
Bao
Great Old One
 
Posts: 6499
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: High up north

Re: 3 Ways To Practice tai Chi

Postby johnwang on Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:28 pm

Bao wrote:
Trick wrote:Now days I’m not really interesting in free-sparring anymore,

Me neither. I don't bother about "fighting" or think in those terms nowadays.

I still love sparring. But I don't like to spar with my own students. My main interest in sparring is to obtain a successful clinch in a fist flying environment. Most of the time I don't even care about the finish move. When I can find opportunity to enter and enter successfully, the amount of joy can make me smile in my dream for many nights. In sparring, there are something that I enjoy very much that even money won't be able to buy for me (such as move in with a successful clinch without being kicked or punched). Through the sparring process, I try to prove whether "anti-striking" is possible or not. I'll need a huge amount of data in order to prove it or dis-prove it.
I'm still allergy to "push".
johnwang
Great Old One
 
Posts: 8617
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:26 pm

Re: 3 Ways To Practice tai Chi

Postby marvin8 on Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:34 pm

johnwang wrote:
Bao wrote:
Trick wrote:Now days I’m not really interesting in free-sparring anymore,

Me neither. I don't bother about "fighting" or think in those terms nowadays.

I still love sparring. But I don't like to spar with my own students. My main interest in sparring is to obtain a successful clinch in a fist flying environment. Most of the time I don't even care about the finish move. When I can find opportunity to enter and enter successfully, the amount of joy can make me smile in my dream for many nights. In sparring, there are something that I enjoy very much that even money won't be able to buy for me. Through the sparring process, I try to prove whether "anti-striking" is possible or not. I'll need a huge amount of data in order to prove it or dis-prove it.

You don't need to spar "to prove whether 'anti-striking' is possible or not." There is already "a huge amount of data in order to prove it or dis-prove it."

UFC has featured high level grapplers (e.g., olympic and international champion wrestlers, judoka, BJJ, etc.) against other MAists, since Nov 11, 1993. Fights can be found on the internet.
Last edited by marvin8 on Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
marvin8
Wuji
 
Posts: 1312
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:30 pm

Re: 3 Ways To Practice tai Chi

Postby MaartenSFS on Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:30 pm

Trick wrote:
MaartenSFS wrote:I didn't get a chance to finish my thoughts this morning but I wanted to add that now that I have learned pretty much everything that I wanted to learn and have some years of sparring and fencing under my belt and feel that I am competent enough I am becoming more interested in self-cultivation. Perhaps it's also because I spent so many years at the whim of other people's schedules and now there isn't a constant flow of training partners every day that I am naturally gravitating towards solo training like that. Or perhaps its because I trained so hard for so many years that I feel like training at that intensity now doesn't offer the same benefits now that I have progressed further and diversifying my regimen is the next logical step to further improve. I'm actually considering to add some Qigong like exercises to my curriculum. When I busy preoccupied with learning how to fight I could never bring myself to train it much.. :-[

You studied LiuheXinYiquan & Xingyiquan ? Hold on to the basics from these MA’s and daily polish them, find some friends with who you can practice sparring exercises , that’s all the Qigong you need

Haha, well you won't find me standing still very long.. There's too much to train to waste my time like that. I get bored too easily.. ;D
User avatar
MaartenSFS
Wuji
 
Posts: 1976
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:22 pm
Location: Holt, Michigan

PreviousNext

Return to Xingyiquan - Baguazhang - Taijiquan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: wiesiek and 1 guest