Determining Your Focus

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Determining Your Focus

Postby MaartenSFS on Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:28 am

I believe that anyone that wants to teach martial arts should determine their focus, that is to specify what skill their students can expect to gain within a reasonable time frame and in what context they will be able to use it. The teacher should have this skill and be able to use it against a resisting opponent. Being great at sticky or push hands is just not going to cut it, if that's the end goal. I'm not against those training methods as a part of the partner training before it gets real, but I can't accept skill in those alone equating to skill in fighting.

For example, if 75-80% of Taijiquan is Shuaifa/Qinna and how to counter them, the focus should probably be on gaining those skills and how to use them in wrestling (since Tuishou as it should be practised is way too limiting, in my opinion, to be considered as fighting or wrestling). The teacher should be able to handle themselves quite well in wrestling and use most of these techniques in the curriculum against a fully resisting opponent. The striking aspects can also be taught, but more as additional self-defence techniques when the shit hits the fan.

If it's Xinyiliuhequan then the teacher should be able to do the same for sparring using the fists, elbows, shoulders and some low kicks, preferably full-contact, and won't be expected to be a champion wrestler.

With a well-rounded art like Baguazhang I suppose it could go either way or they should be able to do both.

If you decide to excel at all aspects of combat it's a much tougher path and you'll have to contend with a lot more different types of fighters that may want to test you, but you can say that you are a true warrior.

I've decided, over the years, to focus on swordsmanship with the Chinese sabre and feel confident that anyone that comes to me will not walk away disappointed by my ability and will be 100% clear as to what they stand to gain under my tutelage. I'm still working to be that confident about my unarmed sparring, which focuses on open-handed and fist techniques with the occasional low kick. I think that determining your focus in this way is great for students, as they will know what they are working towards and will be able to measure their success with frequent reality checks, but this approach also helps keep one from becoming delusional about one's own abilities. Whatever you decide I wish you all the best. :)
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Re: Determining Your Focus

Postby Peacedog on Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:54 am

Maarten,

You've got some skills, are photogenic and know how to work a camera. I think if you can get your marketing down then you would definitely be able to make a living at it.

Seems to me that specialization with this kind of thing is the key to making a living. With the interwebs being what they are if someone can find 1000 loyal subscribers worldwide, they can make a decent living. I just have a feeling that you can find 1000 people truly interested in the Chinese sabre.

Pre-record about 30 instructional videos. Take a five minute clip from each and put these up weekly on youtube. When you have 10 to 15 of these up, link them to the longer full length instructional ones on Vimeo that can be purchased with a monthly subscription.

Then start holding seminars. Keep you local school mainly as group of practice partners to enhance your skills, don't view it as a money making operation. Most people will be there as an hourly break from family/life once a week and won't really practice anyway.

Work on a book while all of this is cooking. It'll act as a way to promote the seminars later on and give the attendees something to work with between coming to see you.

None of this will happen fast, but I think 12-18 months in it would start to get lucrative.

Best,

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Re: Determining Your Focus

Postby MaartenSFS on Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:27 am

Hoi Peacedog,

That's kind of exactly what I've been thinking lately.. Thank you for your kind support. I really appreciate it. :)

Yes, I have been thinking that specialising is the key, too, about my unarmed fighting. My boxing-range (and a little further) stuff is really good. Why should I try to teach half-arsed other stuff when people could just learn that aspect from someone better at it than I? My old foot-injury also prevents me from training and using a lot of kicks, so I can keep things focused, but still show how it can be integrated with other fighting aspects/arts. That way they will be really good at what I teach them, provided they do what I tell them and spar.

Tonight I'm going to the local HEMA group to fence and see if my material holds up. We may have incompatible methods or rules, but it should be interesting regardless!
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Re: Determining Your Focus

Postby marvin8 on Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:49 am

MaartenSFS wrote:I believe that anyone that wants to teach martial arts should determine their focus, that is to specify what skill their students can expect to gain within a reasonable time frame and in what context they will be able to use it. The teacher should have this skill and be able to use it against a resisting opponent. Being great at sticky or push hands is just not going to cut it, if that's the end goal. I'm not against those training methods as a part of the partner training before it gets real, but I can't accept skill in those alone equating to skill in fighting.

For example, if 75-80% of Taijiquan is Shuaifa/Qinna and how to counter them, the focus should probably be on gaining those skills and how to use them in wrestling (since Tuishou as it should be practised is way too limiting, in my opinion, to be considered as fighting or wrestling). The teacher should be able to handle themselves quite well in wrestling and use most of these techniques in the curriculum against a fully resisting opponent. The striking aspects can also be taught, but more as additional self-defence techniques when the shit hits the fan.

If it's Xinyiliuhequan then the teacher should be able to do the same for sparring using the fists, elbows, shoulders and some low kicks, preferably full-contact, and won't be expected to be a champion wrestler.

With a well-rounded art like Baguazhang I suppose it could go either way or they should be able to do both.

If you decide to excel at all aspects of combat it's a much tougher path and you'll have to contend with a lot more different types of fighters that may want to test you, but you can say that you are a true warrior.

I've decided, over the years, to focus on swordsmanship with the Chinese sabre and feel confident that anyone that comes to me will not walk away disappointed by my ability and will be 100% clear as to what they stand to gain under my tutelage. I'm still working to be that confident about my unarmed sparring, which focuses on open-handed and fist techniques with the occasional low kick. I think that determining your focus in this way is great for students, as they will know what they are working towards and will be able to measure their success with frequent reality checks, but this approach also helps keep one from becoming delusional about one's own abilities. Whatever you decide I wish you all the best. :)

Training in swordsmanship (e.g., european, japanese, etc.), that was done in the past for self-defense, is now mostly promoted and trained for reasons (e.g., historical, cultural, sport, hobby, meditation, etc) other than self-defense.

I am not clear on what your focus is, end goal, or what one gains training swordsmanship with the Chinese sabre under your "martial arts" tutelage.

Will one learn how to use most of these Chinese sabre techniques to defend themselves against a "fully resisting opponent" carrying a Chinese sabre? Against an unarmed opponent? Empty hand to empty hand combat?
Last edited by marvin8 on Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Determining Your Focus

Postby MaartenSFS on Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:56 am

I teach my swordsmanship to be compatible with a host of every day objects. If you had taken a quick glance at the swordsmanship section of my webpage or read any of my swordsmanship threads you'd know that. I believe it to be every bit as practical for self defence as many unarmed systems.

My students will learn how to fence against a fully resisting opponent using modern safety equipment. It's a combat sport. That skill will be easily transferable to a multitude of other weapons and even unarmed fighting. Clear enough for you? 8-)
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Re: Determining Your Focus

Postby marvin8 on Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:44 am

MaartenSFS wrote:I teach my swordsmanship to be compatible with a host of every day objects. If you had taken a quick glance at the swordsmanship section of my webpage or read any of my swordsmanship threads you'd know that. I believe it to be every bit as practical for self defence as many unarmed systems.

My students will learn how to fence against a fully resisting opponent using modern safety equipment. It's a combat sport. That skill will be easily transferable to a multitude of other weapons and even unarmed fighting. Clear enough for you? 8-)

I did read your "swordsmanship section of your webpage" and "swordsmanship threads." No, it is not clear enough to me, as a consumer.

Again, self-defense does not come to mind with swordsmanship training. You have not clearly conveyed to me (the consumer) how training swordsmanship is "easily transferable to a multitude of other weapons and even unarmed fighting." That is the reason I asked.

Do I carry or find a sword, stick or bat with me on the streets? This is a limited situation. For unarmed fighting, it would seem to me spending time training unarmed combat is more effective. It is the responsibility of the teacher/business person to convey the transferability and practicality of the training being taught.
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Re: Determining Your Focus

Postby windwalker on Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:33 pm

MaartenSFS wrote:I believe that anyone that wants to teach martial arts should determine their focus, that is to specify what skill their students can expect to gain within a reasonable time frame and in what context they will be able to use it.

would not this be the "style" CMA styles tend to specialise in different aspects They believe to give them an advantage

The teacher should have this skill and be able to use it against a resisting opponent. Being great at sticky or push hands is just not going to cut it, if that's the end goal. I'm not against those training methods as a part of the partner training before it gets real, but I can't accept skill in those alone equating to skill in fighting.

For example, if 75-80% of Taijiquan is Shuaifa/Qinna and how to counter them, the focus should probably be on gaining those skills and how to use them in wrestling (since Tuishou as it should be practised is way too limiting, in my opinion, to be considered as fighting or wrestling). The teacher should be able to handle themselves quite well in wrestling and use most of these techniques in the curriculum against a fully resisting opponent. The striking aspects can also be taught, but more as additional self-defence techniques when the shit hits the fan.

If it's Xinyiliuhequan then the teacher should be able to do the same for sparring using the fists, elbows, shoulders and some low kicks, preferably full-contact, and won't be expected to be a champion wrestler.

With a well-rounded art like Baguazhang I suppose it could go either way or they should be able to do both.

If you decide to excel at all aspects of combat it's a much tougher path and you'll have to contend with a lot more different types of fighters that may want to test you, but you can say that you are a true warrior.

I've decided, over the years, to focus on swordsmanship with the Chinese sabre and feel confident that anyone that comes to me will not walk away disappointed by my ability and will be 100% clear as to what they stand to gain under my tutelage. I'm still working to be that confident about my unarmed sparring, which focuses on open-handed and fist techniques with the occasional low kick. I think that determining your focus in this way is great for students, as they will know what they are working towards and will be able to measure their success with frequent reality checks, but this approach also helps keep one from becoming delusional about one's own abilities. Whatever you decide I wish you all the best. :)


Don't agree with your characterization of Chinese MA. Yes they should and do have to deal with all different types of fighters hence the different styles
development thought to give one an advantage. Weapon training ie swordsmanship is a good niche to fit into...kendo, Iaidō, escrima among others might be considered to be market competitors.

It might be good to look at their marketing and market focus.

While I do not teach commercially tired it a couple of times :P , I've removed my self from the taiji market feeling for the most part that the common expectations held by those in it do not align with my own of essence and functionality . as to reality checks, getting hit is a good reality check,,,training to move with awareness helps one to understand how not to get hit while hitting the focus.

luck in finding your niche and developing your market. ;)
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:21 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Determining Your Focus

Postby MaartenSFS on Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:13 pm

marvin8 wrote:
MaartenSFS wrote:I teach my swordsmanship to be compatible with a host of every day objects. If you had taken a quick glance at the swordsmanship section of my webpage or read any of my swordsmanship threads you'd know that. I believe it to be every bit as practical for self defence as many unarmed systems.

My students will learn how to fence against a fully resisting opponent using modern safety equipment. It's a combat sport. That skill will be easily transferable to a multitude of other weapons and even unarmed fighting. Clear enough for you? 8-)

I did read your "swordsmanship section of your webpage" and "swordsmanship threads." No, it is not clear enough to me, as a consumer.

Again, self-defense does not come to mind with swordsmanship training. You have not clearly conveyed to me (the consumer) how training swordsmanship is "easily transferable to a multitude of other weapons and even unarmed fighting." That is the reason I asked.

Do I carry or find a sword, stick or bat with me on the streets? This is a limited situation. For unarmed fighting, it would seem to me spending time training unarmed combat is more effective. It is the responsibility of the teacher/business person to convey the transferability and practicality of the training being taught.

Like any martial art, the hope is that you'll never need to use it. I've seen some crazy shit during my travels, including a man being butchered with swords. I'm not claiming that knowledge of how to use weapons is the ultimate form of self-defence, but it's definitely something good to have in your arsenal. If society ever breaks down or if you wind up at the wrong place at the wrong time or whilst travelling it may be much more practical than unarmed self-defence, however, depending on the exact situation. It could go either way. Unarmed fighting can turn into armed fighting very quickly. What if it turns into a multiple opponent fight? Grab that cue stick or beer bottle! The knowledge gained from studying my programme will help one wield those weapons effectively.

Like I said, think of it as a combat sport that also has real-world applications. To learn how it transfers to other objects you'll need to learn it first. I'll also mention that learning the footwork, distancing, timing, improving one's reaction speed and power are things that can be transferred to ANY art.
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Re: Determining Your Focus

Postby MaartenSFS on Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:19 pm

windwalker wrote:
MaartenSFS wrote:I believe that anyone that wants to teach martial arts should determine their focus, that is to specify what skill their students can expect to gain within a reasonable time frame and in what context they will be able to use it.

would not this be the "style" CMA styles tend to specialise in different aspects They believe to give them an advantage

The teacher should have this skill and be able to use it against a resisting opponent. Being great at sticky or push hands is just not going to cut it, if that's the end goal. I'm not against those training methods as a part of the partner training before it gets real, but I can't accept skill in those alone equating to skill in fighting.

For example, if 75-80% of Taijiquan is Shuaifa/Qinna and how to counter them, the focus should probably be on gaining those skills and how to use them in wrestling (since Tuishou as it should be practised is way too limiting, in my opinion, to be considered as fighting or wrestling). The teacher should be able to handle themselves quite well in wrestling and use most of these techniques in the curriculum against a fully resisting opponent. The striking aspects can also be taught, but more as additional self-defence techniques when the shit hits the fan.

If it's Xinyiliuhequan then the teacher should be able to do the same for sparring using the fists, elbows, shoulders and some low kicks, preferably full-contact, and won't be expected to be a champion wrestler.

With a well-rounded art like Baguazhang I suppose it could go either way or they should be able to do both.

If you decide to excel at all aspects of combat it's a much tougher path and you'll have to contend with a lot more different types of fighters that may want to test you, but you can say that you are a true warrior.

I've decided, over the years, to focus on swordsmanship with the Chinese sabre and feel confident that anyone that comes to me will not walk away disappointed by my ability and will be 100% clear as to what they stand to gain under my tutelage. I'm still working to be that confident about my unarmed sparring, which focuses on open-handed and fist techniques with the occasional low kick. I think that determining your focus in this way is great for students, as they will know what they are working towards and will be able to measure their success with frequent reality checks, but this approach also helps keep one from becoming delusional about one's own abilities. Whatever you decide I wish you all the best. :)


Don't agree with your characterization of Chinese MA. Yes they should and do have to deal with all different types of fighters hence the different styles
development thought to give one an advantage. Weapon training ie swordsmanship is a good niche to fit into...kendo, Iaidō, escrima among others might be considered to be market competitors.

It might be good to look at their marketing and market focus.

While I do not teach commercially tired it a couple of times :P , I've removed my self from the taiji market feeling for the most part that the common expectations held by those in it do not align with my own of essence and functionality . as to reality checks, getting hit a good reality check,,,training on moving with awareness helps one to understand how not to get hit while hitting the focus.

luck in finding your niche and developing your market. ;)

Ideally, yes. But how many people that claim to do martial arts can defend themselves from ANYTHING? By focusing, at least for a while, I believe that it will be easier to attain enough skill in one area to actually help one stand a chance.

I totally agree about leaving the Taiji market. No regrets there. :P I think that what Peacedog outlined is the right course of action. I actually had an interview/psych evaluation and fitness test for becoming a corrections officer yesterday that I passed, so I may try to move somewhere where the locals have more interest in a year.
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Re: Determining Your Focus

Postby windwalker on Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:26 pm

wish you well in any endeavor you choose.
Being a corrections officer is a lifestyle.

One that may not allow you enough time to pursue your other goals. Having said this I did know Aikido teachers in Hawaii who were corrections officers.


their art was tested on a regular basis.
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Re: Determining Your Focus

Postby Bao on Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:41 pm

MaartenSFS wrote:I believe that anyone that wants to teach martial arts should determine their focus, that is to specify what skill their students can expect to gain within a reasonable time frame and in what context they will be able to use it.


If you just want to only teach fighting, you can teach Sanda. If you want a traditional art then it’s more complicated, you need both a short-time and a long-time goal. Traditional arts build a specific body method, a way you move and use your body. If you don’t want to teach this kind of practice that includes basic training, jibengong as stance work, you can just go and teach Sanda instead.

For weapons I believe that anyone who has a good foundation in any tcma could pick up a stick or a steel rod and make himself pretty well use of it. Any TCMA body is originally designed for using tools and weapons.
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Re: Determining Your Focus

Postby johnwang on Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:12 pm

Bao wrote:If you just want to only teach fighting, you can teach Sanda. If you want a traditional art then it’s more complicated,...

I don't understand your logic here. I teach my student how to fight. I also teach my student TCMA. There is no conflict there. My entering strategy and finish strategy are my goal. After I have defined my goal, I then find a path to get there. I won't teach anything that's not useful for fighting.
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Re: Determining Your Focus

Postby MaartenSFS on Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:47 pm

windwalker wrote:wish you well in any endeavor you choose.
Being a corrections officer is a lifestyle.

One that may not allow you enough time to pursue your other goals. Having said this I did know Aikido teachers in Hawaii who were corrections officers.


their art was tested on a regular basis.

For the time being, probably, but like you say I'll be tested. I just have a lot less options than I thought I'd have with my Chinese language skills and I need to save some money ASAP.

I'll start making many videos within the next several days and try to build that up within the next year. I just went to the local HEMA club today and fared very well. I really believe that what I have is worth learning. That being said, I still have things to work on for sure.
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Re: Determining Your Focus

Postby MaartenSFS on Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:51 pm

Bao wrote:
MaartenSFS wrote:I believe that anyone that wants to teach martial arts should determine their focus, that is to specify what skill their students can expect to gain within a reasonable time frame and in what context they will be able to use it.


If you just want to only teach fighting, you can teach Sanda. If you want a traditional art then it’s more complicated, you need both a short-time and a long-time goal. Traditional arts build a specific body method, a way you move and use your body. If you don’t want to teach this kind of practice that includes basic training, jibengong as stance work, you can just go and teach Sanda instead.

For weapons I believe that anyone who has a good foundation in any tcma could pick up a stick or a steel rod and make himself pretty well use of it. Any TCMA body is originally designed for using tools and weapons.

I have to say that I totally disagree with both your points. Like Mr. Wang said, I teach nothing that isn't effective in fighting and it looks nothing like Sanda. Following your advice is exactly what lead to TCMA turning into a dance and Sanda turning into kickboxing.

As for the weapons, yes, someone that's good at TCMA could pick up a stick and be better than someone that hasn't done TCMA, but if their opponent is proficient with a weapon they'll be dead. Weapons fighting is much more than a form. It's a whole system in its own right. Even every range of weapon has its own system and techniques and training methods. You should really re-think your stance here.
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Re: Determining Your Focus

Postby MaartenSFS on Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:56 pm

johnwang wrote:
Bao wrote:If you just want to only teach fighting, you can teach Sanda. If you want a traditional art then it’s more complicated,...

I don't understand your logic here. I teach my student how to fight. I also teach my student TCMA. There is no conflict there. My entering strategy and finish strategy are my goal. After I have defined my goal, I then find a path to get there. I won't teach anything that's not useful for fighting.

EXACTLY. And the path to get to the goal shouldn't take them around the mountain fifty times or to another mountain or down the river.. It should be efficient.

Also, there are different Shenfa for different purposes. Some are better for striking and some are better for wrestling, etc. Tonight the Shenfa for Longsword and Rapier fencing were completely different from each other and from what I do. When I tried my hand at Rapier fencing a lot of what I learned was not applicable, even my foundation training. I can't wait to try my hand at other types of weapons.
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