Determining Your Focus

[marvin8]

If you just want to only teach fighting, you can teach Sanda. If you want a traditional art then it’s more complicated,...

I don't understand your logic here. I teach my student how to fight. I also teach my student TCMA. There is no conflict there. My entering strategy and finish strategy are my goal. After I have defined my goal, I then find a path to get there. I won't teach anything that's not useful for fighting.

EXACTLY. And the path to get to the goal shouldn't take them around the mountain fifty times or to another mountain or down the river.. It should be efficient.

Also, there are different Shenfa for different purposes. Some are better for striking and some are better for wrestling, etc. Tonight the Shenfa for Longsword and Rapier fencing were completely different from each other and from what I do. When I tried my hand at Rapier fencing a lot of what I learned was not applicable, even my foundation training. I can't wait to try my hand at other types of weapons.

Swordsmanship/fencing does not equate to nor is it an efficient way of learning striking, wrestling or fighting skills.

I agree with Peacedog that "you may find 1000 people truly interested in the Chinese sabre." There is an existing market for swordsmanship/fencing workshop, classes, videos, etc. Most likely, your major target market is those with similar interests.

Your conflating by equating fencing and fighting.

I believe that anyone that wants to teach martial arts should determine their focus, that is to specify what skill their students can expect to gain within a reasonable time frame and in what context they will be able to use it. The teacher should have this skill and be able to use it against a resisting opponent. Being great at sticky or push hands is just not going to cut it, if that's the end goal. I'm not against those training methods as a part of the partner training before it gets real, but I can't accept skill in those alone equating to skill in fighting.

[Bao]

If you just want to only teach fighting, you can teach Sanda. If you want a traditional art then it’s more complicated,...

I don't understand your logic here. I teach my student how to fight. I also teach my student TCMA. There is no conflict there. My entering strategy and finish strategy are my goal. After I have defined my goal, I then find a path to get there. I won't teach anything that's not useful for fighting.

Never said that there’s a conflict here or that they are mutually exclusive. That is something you read into it. I firmly believe in focus on martial arts aspects and fighting practice from day one. Bur if you want to teach an art as traditional, there are certain ingredients that must be taught. If not, it’s better to just teach fighting and not being concerned about any traditional style. Many schools lack foundations practice and they are very little concerned with the real body method that is developed very much through the foundations practice. I would call them McDojo or similar. Many students believe they are being taught something traditional but in fact many times what remains of the real art is only a fraction of what should be there. It’s not about what can be used for fighting or not, or about how fast you can start to use something. It’s about openness, respect and honesty. Schools that promise one thing but teach something else hurt both CMA and those who care about preserving the traditional arts.

[Bao]

Also, there are different Shenfa for different purposes. Some are better for striking and some are better for wrestling, etc. Tonight the Shenfa for Longsword and Rapier fencing were completely different from each other and from what I do. When I tried my hand at Rapier fencing a lot of what I learned was not applicable, even my foundation training.

The type of body methods built in TCMA are built over long time. When you really have developed a good body method it’s not easy to adapt any kind of other method. Some are similar some are very different.

[marvin8]

Swordsmanship/fencing does not equate to nor is it an efficient way of learning striking, wrestling or fighting skills. . . .

Your conflating by equating fencing and fighting.

I believe that anyone that wants to teach martial arts should determine their focus, that is to specify what skill their students can expect to gain within a reasonable time frame and in what context they will be able to use it. The teacher should have this skill and be able to use it against a resisting opponent. Being great at sticky or push hands is just not going to cut it, if that's the end goal. I'm not against those training methods as a part of the partner training before it gets real, but I can't accept skill in those alone equating to skill in fighting.

Also, there are different Shenfa for different purposes. Some are better for striking and some are better for wrestling, etc. Tonight the Shenfa for Longsword and Rapier fencing were completely different from each other and from what I do. When I tried my hand at Rapier fencing a lot of what I learned was not applicable, even my foundation training.

The type of body methods built in TCMA are built over long time. When you really have developed a good body method it’s not easy to adapt any kind of other method. Some are similar some are very different.

I was referring to this type of fencing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFe_SiCXlUk

[MaartenSFS]

Swordsmanship/fencing does not equate to nor is it an efficient way of learning striking, wrestling or fighting skills.

I agree with Peacedog that "you may find 1000 people truly interested in the Chinese sabre." There is an existing market for swordsmanship/fencing workshop, classes, videos, etc. Most likely, your major target market is those with similar interests.

Your conflating by equating fencing and fighting.

I didn't say that learning swordsmanship is an efficient way to learn how to strike or wrestle... Stop trying to grasp at straws. The swordsmanship that I teach will help improve striking and wrestling, though, as it teaches you to use your core to power everything, amongst other benefits. It also teaches you to fight from the side that you normally don't fight with with unarmed sparring, depending on your style. I wrote an article a week ago about exactly this topic that you must have missed.

Fencing and sparring are the same. One is for weapons and one is for unarmed. Both are fighting full-contact against a fully resisting opponent. You should try them both sometime before comparing.

[MaartenSFS]

If you just want to only teach fighting, you can teach Sanda. If you want a traditional art then it’s more complicated,...

I don't understand your logic here. I teach my student how to fight. I also teach my student TCMA. There is no conflict there. My entering strategy and finish strategy are my goal. After I have defined my goal, I then find a path to get there. I won't teach anything that's not useful for fighting.

Never said that there’s a conflict here or that they are mutually exclusive. That is something you read into it. I firmly believe in focus on martial arts aspects and fighting practice from day one. Bur if you want to teach an art as traditional, there are certain ingredients that must be taught. If not, it’s better to just teach fighting and not being concerned about any traditional style. Many schools lack foundations practice and they are very little concerned with the real body method that is developed very much through the foundations practice. I would call them McDojo or similar. Many students believe they are being taught something traditional but in fact many times what remains of the real art is only a fraction of what should be there. It’s not about what can be used for fighting or not, or about how fast you can start to use something. It’s about openness, respect and honesty. Schools that promise one thing but teach something else hurt both CMA and those who care about preserving the traditional arts.

The methods that I teach are more traditional than most CMA schools, which have dropped the real training in favour of endless forms that have been recently created. The Shenfa is indeed developed over time. My arts take about two to three years to learn, depending on how hard one works. The difference with many other arts is that I want my students to be able to start fighting as soon as possible. The rest of the time is improving and refining and learning more specialised skills.

[MaartenSFS]

I was referring to this type of fencing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFe_SiCXlUk

This type of fencing worked extremely well against a group of hard-working, serious HEMA people last night.

[marvin8]

Swordsmanship/fencing does not equate to nor is it an efficient way of learning striking, wrestling or fighting skills.

I agree with Peacedog that "you may find 1000 people truly interested in the Chinese sabre." There is an existing market for swordsmanship/fencing workshop, classes, videos, etc. Most likely, your major target market is those with similar interests.

Your conflating by equating fencing and fighting.

I didn't say that learning swordsmanship is an efficient way to learn how to strike or wrestle... Stop trying to grasp at straws. The swordsmanship that I teach will help improve striking and wrestling, though, as it teaches you to use your core to power everything, amongst other benefits. It also teaches you to fight from the side that you normally don't fight with with unarmed sparring, depending on your style. I wrote an article a week ago about exactly this topic that you must have missed.

Fencing and sparring are the same. One is for weapons and one is for unarmed. Both are fighting full-contact against a fully resisting opponent. You should try them both sometime before comparing.

Replying to the OP and your subsequent posts. Not trying to grasp at straws.

Your type of fencing and unarmed combat are not the same. Your type of fencing does not develop the skills a "student" needs for unarmed fighting, unarmed sparring does. Swinging a sword as in your video is not the same mechanics, timing, distance, etc., as in unarmed fighting. Using the core and switching stances is done in unarmed sparring.

I was referring to this type of fencing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFe_SiCXlUk

This type of fencing worked extremely well against a group of hard-working, serious HEMA people last night.

I do not disagree that your fencing is good for fencing.

[MaartenSFS]

Okay, I think maybe you misunderstood me or I wasn't clear.. In the OP I was talking about determining the focus for your system and I mentioned sparring and wrestling and then my personal situation with fencing. I was not implying that my swordsmanship system is the best way to learn unarmed fighting. I was merely stating that the focus of my swordsmanship system is to get my students to become proficient at fencing and that the entire curriculum is centred around it. That being said, the mechanics for Shuaibeishou are identical in my swordsmanship and unarmed fighting and the mechanics of Zhenjin are the same whether punching or thrusting, so there is great overlap and learning any type of good swordsmanship will greatly enhance your unarmed fighting, I promise you. This is something that really surprised me during my own training. It's not just switching stances. It's not that simple. In the OP I also mentioned my unarmed system and its focus on hand techniques. I'm not sure where the confusion stems from, but I hope that I've cleared it up now.

[Peacedog]

Maarten,

I forgot something the other day. Look up Tim Ferriss' website and get into his podcasts on building a list of followers and loyal subscribers. The steps advised are pretty mechanical and should work well if you focus your advertised teachings well. With your photography Instagram and the like will work really well for you. Check out the "sheriff of Baghdad" page to get an idea of how mixing storytelling with personal history photos and current teaching photos can work really well. Plus Shrek is a cool guy from what I hear.

On that note, most of the bigger name teachers out there have their advertised business and then the stuff they do on their own. Rasmus promotes his tai chi as it pays the bills, but he is a big time Hermeticist. Santiago Dobles and Tao Semko both rep the kundaliniawakeningprocess.org stuff, but Santiago is a very serious silat practitioner and Tao knows just about every form of tantric yoga that exists. I think you get the idea.

Narrowly focus your marketing. Really narrowly. The main thing is to stand out. And advertising Chinese martial arts training for fighting, unless you are a MMA champion, probably isn't going to work well.

[everything]

Some random thoughts.

This ties into our earlier 80/20 talk. Focus makes sense. "You do you."

The weapons/empty hand thing is why FMA and Xingyiquan have a certain appeal. If the shtick is "self defence", weapons at hand ties into this. Pick up a phone, an umbrella, a mug, a pen, a bottle, a frozen ham, whatever. You should be able to do you.

Life is way too short to be a "prepper" though. People want to feel like a badass, but they want to have fun. This sparring seems like a ton of fun.

Marketing wise, it may be hard to find the "messaging" in a crowded market.

[MaartenSFS]

Maarten,

I forgot something the other day. Look up Tim Ferriss' website and get into his podcasts on building a list of followers and loyal subscribers. The steps advised are pretty mechanical and should work well if you focus your advertised teachings well. With your photography Instagram and the like will work really well for you. Check out the "sheriff of Baghdad" page to get an idea of how mixing storytelling with personal history photos and current teaching photos can work really well. Plus Shrek is a cool guy from what I hear.

On that note, most of the bigger name teachers out there have their advertised business and then the stuff they do on their own. Rasmus promotes his tai chi as it pays the bills, but he is a big time Hermeticist. Santiago Dobles and Tao Semko both rep the kundaliniawakeningprocess.org stuff, but Santiago is a very serious silat practitioner and Tao knows just about every form of tantric yoga that exists. I think you get the idea.

Narrowly focus your marketing. Really narrowly. The main thing is to stand out. And advertising Chinese martial arts training for fighting, unless you are a MMA champion, probably isn't going to work well.

I tried to start filming yesterday, but I wasn't happy with the results. Too much wind...

I'll check out Tim Ferriss' website for sure. Learning how to run and expand a business like this is important.

As far as my focus, I'll probably lock it in on swordsmanship with an eye towards practical usage in fencing and keep the unarmed stuff for anyone else that's interested and hard-working enough to learn it. With the swordsmanship I think even an MMA champion, if they are interested in weapons at all, would see the value in my system.

[MaartenSFS]

Some random thoughts.

This ties into our earlier 80/20 talk. Focus makes sense. "You do you."

The weapons/empty hand thing is why FMA and Xingyiquan have a certain appeal. If the shtick is "self defence", weapons at hand ties into this. Pick up a phone, an umbrella, a mug, a pen, a bottle, a frozen ham, whatever. You should be able to do you.

Life is way too short to be a "prepper" though. People want to feel like a badass, but they want to have fun. This sparring seems like a ton of fun.

Marketing wise, it may be hard to find the "messaging" in a crowded market.

Haha, a frozen ham! Exactly! Anything longish and not too light, unless it is really sturdy like an expensive car antenna, will do!

The reason I decided to focus on swordsmanship is because my solo training is quite enjoyable for something so tiring and the fencing is crazy fun, whilst still being extremely practical. The weight and density of the weapons is perfect for maintaining a balance between safety and function, plus requires less investment in equipment than other weapons-based combat sports.

[Peacedog]

I'd also take a close look at Instagram pages, and similar media, that tell a story. Being a story teller, and you have one hell of a story to tell, and a photographer will make you stand out amongst all of the Insta-whores and the like.

Just all of your back catalog of photography from rural China could easily be turned into a business of selling your unused photos to others and promoting your business on a visual based media like Instagram would help get the "word" out about everything you've done. Keep in mind that what you did for fun, the empty headed Instagram attention grabbers pay others thousands of dollars for just to keep their sites fresh. I wouldn't be surprised if that turned into work as a photographer as well.

[MaartenSFS]

Hm... That's interesting. I am using those photos for my book, though, which I'll probably do first. You have opened my eyes to how all of these platforms connect and promote businesses. I just created a Facebook group for my arts last week as well and am hoping that people will find it..