Putting My Money Where My Mouth Is..

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Putting My Money Where My Mouth Is..

Postby Peacedog on Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:27 am

+1 Interloper

Learning how to run a business if you want to be self employed is key. And, yes, it wasn't any different hundreds of years ago either.

Alex Kozma put together a book on the teachers of Wan Lai Sheng about a decade ago that was informative. It essentially provided page long biographies for his major teachers. It was informative. These guys did a lot of things to pay the bills and teaching martial arts was usually not a full time occupation.

All of that being said, harnessing the power of the internet by selling books/videos/seminars online has really opened up the ability to market to a niche that simply didn't exist a twenty years ago. Building that out is not a fast process, but I've met a few people who make a decent living at it. And people who have really mastered this, ala Mantak Chia and Bruce Frantzis, can make a killing.

If any of these arts are to survive, practitioners must find a modern way to identify and gain paying students. Particularly as they continue to lose martial applicability and further slide into the category of leisure/artistic endeavors.
Last edited by Peacedog on Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Putting My Money Where My Mouth Is..

Postby Steve James on Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:13 am

I've known instructors in NYC that have started out two ways. The ones who were unknown asked for space to teach at an already established school. (Windy might know of one, Tony Chuy). He taught on Sunday afternoons at our school, run by his brother who started by teaching at Aaron Banks's school. Anyway, they started this way because they were unknown and needed a space. That might be the easy part.

Other teachers I know were well known before they came, and already had students. One gave classes at a local church, the other at a Buddhist temple. The thing is, both were professional people who weren't interested in earning a living. They gave whatever was donated to the church or temple.

So, if it's about spreading your art, there has to be a reason that students will come to you, even if you find a space. Needless to say, to maintaining or improving the art will take practice, and a partner. John Wang talked about having to pay people to practice with him. Market research will help. Who needs what you have to offer and where. You could volunteer at an institution, like a nursing home or a veteran's hospital. But, that is a responsibility, and won't necessarily drum up any business.

Well, my mom would say "First, get a job." And, I'd say "do what you love in your spare time." If you can manage to make your love your job, you won't be working anymore.
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Re: Putting My Money Where My Mouth Is..

Postby windwalker on Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:10 pm

Steve James wrote:I've known instructors in NYC that have started out two ways. The ones who were unknown asked for space to teach at an already established school. (Windy might know of one, Tony Chuy). Tony was a nice guy as I remember him and quite skilled in 7* mantis. He used to come out to visit teacher Brendan Lai when he was alive. He taught on Sunday afternoons at our school, run by his brother who started by teaching at Aaron Banks's school. Anyway, they started this way because they were unknown and needed a space. That might be the easy part.

Other teachers I know were well known before they came, and already had students. One gave classes at a local church, the other at a Buddhist temple. The thing is, both were professional people who weren't interested in earning a living. They gave whatever was donated to the church or temple.

So, if it's about spreading your art, there has to be a reason that students will come to you, even if you find a space. Needless to say, to maintaining or improving the art will take practice, and a partner. John Wang talked about having to pay people to practice with him. Market research will help. Who needs what you have to offer and where. You could volunteer at an institution, like a nursing home or a veteran's hospital. But, that is a responsibility, and won't necessarily drum up any business.

Well, my mom would say "First, get a job." And, I'd say "do what you love in your spare time." If you can manage to make your love your job, you won't be working anymore.


Regarding the OP

not a fan of your present course but wish you well in any course that works for you.
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Re: Putting My Money Where My Mouth Is..

Postby MaartenSFS on Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:07 pm

I want to thank some of you for sharing about how different teachers have made a name for themselves and for giving me a lot of great ideas. This is a long-term goal of mine, so I'll slowly work on it. In the meantime I'm 32 years old and lived in China for almost all of my adult life. I have debts from coming back for two years to finish off an Associates Degree and am pretty much totally broke and have a wife to take care of. I tried to find other employment for three months. It didn't work out. The State wants me and are willing to pay handsomely for it. The benefits are great. It's not a desk job. If China didn't have so much pollution and a new dictator I never would have left. This is reality, though, and I have a lot of catching up to do.

I've got a 640 hour, four month training course for free and it will look really good on my resume. I found out tonight that I can branch out into FTO (Field Training Officer) and ERT (Emergency Response Team) positions after two years. I lived, worked and trained in fucking Siberia for a year with arseholes, so this isn't going to be more difficult. I've seen fucked up shit in China that have caused friends to have nervous breakdowns. The value of life in China is very low. Bad things happen and no one bats an eye. I've got this. After I finish at least a year it will give me a lot more credibility as a martial arts instructor as well. Today the captain told me that he'd help me to find training partners!
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Re: Putting My Money Where My Mouth Is..

Postby grzegorz on Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:03 pm

Good luck! Apply for as many positions as you can with as many departments as you can.

A friend of mine got screwed over by Oakland PD just a few days from graduating from their academy. He got injured by their trainer and they said they'd bring him back but didn't. Yet he stuck it out and became a sheriff for the same county. It can happen but it can take years. He never gave up on his dream and it happened.
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Re: Putting My Money Where My Mouth Is..

Postby RickMatz on Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:35 am

I trained for a while in aikido under a guy who was a Detroit fire fighter.

He had a decent base salary, great health care and benefits. He worked about 10 24 hr days a month, but had the rest of his time to himself. Like most fire fighters that I know, he had a side gig which was his aikido school, which was in space he rented from a health club.

When he was at the firehouse and couldn't teach, one of his senior students would lead the class while they worked on testing techniques.

He also taught some sessions at the Detroit Police Academy.
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Re: Putting My Money Where My Mouth Is..

Postby I-mon on Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:01 pm

Good luck man. I know it's probably more difficult to get into (it is here in Australia), but firefighting is definitely an amazing profession to get into. The training is much more "reality based" than most martial arts (fire fighters absolutely have to be physically fit across a broad range of measures), the service to the community is very real and the respect they receive in return is as well.

But whatever, it sounds like you'll always be exploring new territory, so like everyone else here I hope it goes well for you.
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Re: Putting My Money Where My Mouth Is..

Postby Peacedog on Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:21 am

Regarding law enforcement versus firefighting....

law enforcement = racks up more injuries, I've generally seen this correspond with guys who got lazy with conditioning, no big deal at 30 but it certainly gets rare at 50 when you are waiting out the last few years to retirement

fire fighters = more "health" related problems, respiratory and cancer seem to be the big ones

Both jobs are physical and carry accompanying risks. However, it probably beats selling insurance in Omaha.
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Re: Putting My Money Where My Mouth Is..

Postby Bhassler on Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:39 am

Correctional officers may or may not be technically considered law enforcement. Is this program offered through the local PD/Sheriff's office, or is it run by a private company? That could make a big difference in terms of what you're getting into.

Also keep in mind that use of force policies may require that you do pretty much the opposite of what you've trained for in your MA training. Using your kung fu on an inmate may be a great opportunity to get fired, sued, and destitute. Heck, if you do it right, you may be able to just walk yourself into your own personal cell just as soon as the fighting is over...
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Re: Putting My Money Where My Mouth Is..

Postby grzegorz on Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:15 pm

I agree that firefighters do have the best schedule for someone who wants to teach martial arts. I have known a few teachers/coaches who are firefighters. The best part is they don't care about the money that comes or doesn't come from their martial arts classes.
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Re: Putting My Money Where My Mouth Is..

Postby MaartenSFS on Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:58 pm

Sorry, it's been an intense week so far.. I'll keep it brief...

Yes, it is considered a Law Enforcement position, working for the State. The academy is run like a military boot-camp complete with drill sergeants (but called Field Training Officers). Nine hours a day of intense book work learning the policies, practical lessons to qualify for firearms, first responder, self-defence, arresting technique etc. training and brutal physical training and formation drilling. The top drill sergeant, who is also my platoon's FTO, is a very serious guy with attitude. He looks like what you could imagine if Lawrence Fishburn and Samuel L. Jackson had a baby with Fishburn's looks and Jackson's voice and demeanor. Crazy shit.

I'm trying to think of it as a four month-long free education (plus I get paid and have benefits). It also gets my foot into the State jobs so if I want to do something else after a half year or year it's still going to look really good on my resume.

I would not want to be a firefighter and get cancer, no thank you. I'm not going to do this forever. I get bored way too easy for that. Need to do something to get started, though.. 8-)
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Re: Putting My Money Where My Mouth Is..

Postby Interloper on Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:31 pm

It sure sounds like a good start. You are still young and have many possibilities for the future, so making your first step a solid one is wise. Good luck and best wishes!
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Re: Putting My Money Where My Mouth Is..

Postby grzegorz on Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:09 pm

In my state prison guards, due to their union, can make more than cops and they probably use their martial arts skills, both physical and non-physical more than the police. When police feel threatened they pull out their gun but not prison guards. Yet in some states prison guards make next to nothing.

I know a few and somehow they like it but then again we all got to do something to make that money.
Last edited by grzegorz on Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Putting My Money Where My Mouth Is..

Postby middleway on Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:46 am

Being any kind of artist is a tough sell, in the world. That's why the adjective "starving" has gotten itself attached to "artist" as a prefix. The guys who know how to market, have the edge, but someone with an artist's heart can have a hard time doing something that they see as commercial and crass. Without the marketing (flyers, business cards, web page, etc.), though, who is going to know what you have, and of what value it is to them? As great as the skills may be, many a rose was born to blush unseen...

But if you have something to offer, I agree with Subitai that focusing on getting a handful of good students is the way to start


+1

I Taught a Chinese internal arts class for about 8 years with them only covering the cost of the hall ... sometimes that wasnt even covered. I had about 6 VERY dedicated students who were very commited to the arts i was teaching. I felt for a long time (and to a degree still do) that martial arts shouldnt be charged for.

Even now, the small group of commited students i still teach ... i do so for free. I have a small training room now and that comes out of my own pocket.

However, I found a type of Niche in the non-traditional body training side of things and that has been relatively successful accross a wide range of Martial artists from BJJ black belts, Muay Thai instructors, MMA fighters, Tai Chi Teachers, Silat Teachers, Movement practitioners, Dancers, AikidoKa etc etc. This is work that i present online and is a sincere effort to bring advantagious material to those who would otherwise never have contact with it. It has taken, and still requires alot of planning, research and effort to achieve. You will also attract a fair amount of haters. Usually those who view your stuff through their own preconceived ideas or dogmas.

That said, the income from MartialBody barely covers the cost of my training room on your average month, so that is still not a career income. Luckily i also run my own company so do not rely on it.

Secondly, When i was younger i worked in nightclub security for an extended period of time and this was a defining time for my understanding of violence, threat detection and fighting. Security, in any form, is a very underrated area of testing. However, it is one where, almost nightly you are garanteed to have your work tested in real exchange.

I wish you all the best with the job.

Stay as safe as you can, be the nice guy ... untill it is time to not be anymore. ;)
Last edited by middleway on Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Putting My Money Where My Mouth Is..

Postby TrainingDummy on Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:01 am

+1 for firefighting.

I did it for several years and was easily able to train several hours a day, both at work and within the shift schedule, which was a four on/ four off roster.

As Peacedog attests there's injury risks, which happened to me, and you tend to die earlier from long term heat exposure, but on the whole it's a pretty great job.
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