New Translation Available - Nei Gong 13 Exercises Illustrate

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: New Translation Available - Nei Gong 13 Exercises Illustrate

Postby Franklin on Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:23 am

wiesiek wrote:I read i briefly,
and
try 1st exercise.
Interestingly , I get strong feeling , ok, I`m sain` it- -qi movement :), at once -/heavy qigong background?/.

Would like to know:
- Do you know somebody who went thru whole cycle?
`cause it`s looks from description, like internal version of the >iron hand< , so relation from the real breakin` test can be interesting.

Explanation of sex avoiding thru 100 days seems to be logical ,
however, we had here lot of talks about it w/o conclusion. :)

What is missing , in my opinion -
density and intervals of the practice during the day .




The guy I know who learned it - has not practiced it in 3 decades..
and i have never met anyone else who learned it...
he actually turned me on to the book
he said the only thing he had seen close to what he had learned was in this book

to me-- it seems more iron body then iron hand

to me - i think the most interesting part is when he talks about the fascia...
if you have done other practices that inflate and fill the body
then that part of the book is interesting...

its also interesting (to me at least)- the progression that this set follows
filling the dan tian, then up the front of the body- etc...

I am glad that at least you seem to have found the book interesting :)

Franklin
Last edited by Franklin on Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Translation Available - Nei Gong 13 Exercises Illustrate

Postby wiesiek on Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:28 am

Thank you Franklin,
My idea, that it is aimed for >internal iron hand< came from the "manual".
Friend of mine borrow the book for the couple days, so
as I remember the text:
.... Even when you trunk is full of the Qi ,you don`t have the power,
You have to send it and fulfill hands and legs .
On the end your hand became hard as the rock.,,

Would like to note , that I like the book,
`cause is thin in volume and heavy in meaning in the same time.
BTW, all serious writings - which I have chance to read, about the subject /internal "Oi training"/ begins with iron body exercises . Starting point is always - fulfiling DT/solar plexus area 1st.
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Re: New Translation Available - Nei Gong 13 Exercises Illustrate

Postby Franklin on Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:16 am

wiesiek wrote:Thank you Franklin,
My idea, that it is aimed for >internal iron hand< came from the "manual".
Friend of mine borrow the book for the couple days, so
as I remember the text:
.... Even when you trunk is full of the Qi ,you don`t have the power,
You have to send it and fulfill hands and legs .
On the end your hand became hard as the rock.,,

Would like to note , that I like the book,
`cause is thin in volume and heavy in meaning in the same time.
BTW, all serious writings - which I have chance to read, about the subject /internal "Oi training"/ begins with iron body exercises . Starting point is always - fulfiling DT/solar plexus area 1st.



i think the part where he writes about sending it the hand and legs is just talking about getting the complete Gong
having the full achievement

if you have practiced other things that fill the abdomen and the torso
its actually pretty easy to obtain this with the right training

I had one teacher that had a set of only a couple exercises
and if you did them everyday (only like 10 minutes)
after about 2 weeks you can start taking full power punches with no problem to your abdomen...

so this level of attainment is fairly easy

i think the author is just pointing out
that unless you can have the attainment all the way to the legs and arms
then its not really the full thing...


in my experience with some internal iron palm type training
it usually goes straight to sending the qi to the hands
and strengthening the hands...
now for it to work and the hands to get strong-
it internal body also has to be strong
but the emphasis right away is straight on the hand

the internal iron body stuff I have been exposed to
starts in the center
and works its way out to the limbs eventually
but the emphasis is on the center first and foremost...



glad you liked the book
(i thought it was a pretty cool little book)


on a side note -- i think its a little funny--
teachers now a days are secretive about stuff
or use that its all a secret -- to be very vague about things
either they don't want to give it out, or they don't really know it...
but if you read some old books like this one --
the authors just gives you lots of information

i don't know if its the same now
but about 15 years ago--
people used to be super secretive about their herbal formulas and iron palm formulas
but if you read some old books in chinese - there are lots of herbal formulas and iron palm formulas given out...

but at the same time i can understand some of the secrecy...
for instance some of my teachers would say-
don't fill the entire formula at the same shop
break it down into 4 or 5 parts
and fill each at a different shop... so no one can steal the formula...

I think in 2006 - in southern taiwan
i went to go and fill a formula in a shop
and i filled the entire formula...
and then some months later i went back
and the guy at the shop had a large jar on the counter of my formula that he was selling...

crazy world...

;D
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Re: New Translation Available - Nei Gong 13 Exercises Illustrate

Postby taiwandeutscher on Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:19 pm

When I got my formula the last time (also southern TW), the 2 old guys in the drug store were hugely happy, that someone still uses medical wash (Yaoxi). They gave me all for free!
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Re: New Translation Available - Nei Gong 13 Exercises Illustrate

Postby Trick on Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:23 pm

Same shop, same jar ?
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Re: New Translation Available - Nei Gong 13 Exercises Illustrate

Postby windwalker on Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:19 pm

Franklin wrote:
on a side note -- i think its a little funny--
teachers now a days are secretive about stuff
or use that its all a secret -- to be very vague about things
either they don't want to give it out, or they don't really know it...
but if you read some old books like this one --
the authors just gives you lots of information

i don't know if its the same now
but about 15 years ago--
people used to be super secretive about their herbal formulas and iron palm formulas
but if you read some old books in chinese - there are lots of herbal formulas and iron palm formulas given out...

I would say the thing to watch for is efficacy, an old recipe printed in a book
may or may not have the same effects as one closely held as a family secret, although if one is an herbalist and knows
the intended use and expected result, There probably many generic recipes that one could find.

In the tech world all know how to build and develop the many products that people use. The how its done are closely guarded secrets
with the gen ideas patented for protection


but at the same time i can understand some of the secrecy...
for instance some of my teachers would say-
don't fill the entire formula at the same shop
break it down into 4 or 5 parts
and fill each at a different shop... so no one can steal the formula...

I think in 2006 - in southern taiwan
i went to go and fill a formula in a shop
and i filled the entire formula...
and then some months later i went back
and the guy at the shop had a large jar on the counter of my formula that he was selling...

crazy world...

;D


Another way to look at it might be a world where one has to earn a living....and will do it any way one can.
Many say what is called IMA has been changed to facilitate this. Earning a living.

The important thing about your book just from reading the post is that you outline methods
that you used in your own work verifying that they do what is advertised with expected results .

There are not many who can write books based on their own findings, which makes your writings even more
valuable for those looking for this type of information.

Interesting comments about the iron hand training. I learned indirectly, used to practice what was called burning hand
the focus as you mentioned in thinking back on it was the hand....cooking it more or less in a large pot of jow.....
I had asked for the recipe at one time from a noted teacher, in a kind way he said "unless your a direct student its not something I
share with outsiders"

The same could be said for many practices concerning MA in gen...
not many willing or feeling its wise to open up to the gen public.


Good luck with your book....
Last edited by windwalker on Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New Translation Available - Nei Gong 13 Exercises Illustrate

Postby Franklin on Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:22 pm

taiwandeutscher wrote:When I got my formula the last time (also southern TW), the 2 old guys in the drug store were hugely happy, that someone still uses medical wash (Yaoxi). They gave me all for free!


cool

yeah-- the old guys I get along with...

but I have had some experiences with the younger guys who have herb shops..

..... "that's a very rare herb..." (well can i just get the regular version of it... i don't need the one that comes from the specific province)
..... "no on has that herb in taiwan" (call another herb store and find it in 5 min...)
.... of course this leads up to them saying -- "you don't really want this formula.. I have a much better one I can sell you.."

I mostly get this when going to fill internal prescriptions (like tonics and such)...


I find this kind of attitude is not uncommon here
-- for instance one time in south taiwan I had to redo the kitchen of the place we staying...
so I wanted to get something cheap.. so I am thinking those metal cabinets that everyone has in their place (i am sure you know the ones I mean)

so my wife stopped by a store she found on the street that is selling kitchen cabinets (but mostly it looked like wooden ones)
and she asks prices, and what he sells, and then asks about the metal ones that everyone has in their apartments..
his response -- flat out straight faced -- "no one in taiwan is making those anymore... I can sell you these over here..."

and there is a guy couple blocks away with the metal cabinets on display....

lol
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Re: New Translation Available - Nei Gong 13 Exercises Illustrate

Postby Franklin on Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:28 pm

Trick wrote:Same shop, same jar ?


yeah same shop...

i don't know what you mean by same jar...

it was an external use formula for injury..
I got the formula filled and ground up (as you need it in powder to make the paste to apply it)..
so the amount i bought was just enough for me... (smaller quantity)...

before I filled the formula my wife was all about
we should go to multiple shops, what if someone steals your formula.. etc...
I did not really care...

the shop was on her way home from work, so she passed it everyday..
then after we filled the formula there
she noticed one day a big jar on the counter with what looked like the same stuff I had bought..
so she went in - and saw that the guy had just made a whole bunch of what i ordered from him and was selling it...

she came home all pissed off...
how can he do something like that, that is your formula...

my attitude was..
well -- its not business for me...
and its a formula for injury..
so maybe it is helping some people..
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Re: New Translation Available - Nei Gong 13 Exercises Illustrate

Postby Franklin on Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:51 pm

windwalker wrote:
I would say the thing to watch for is efficacy, an old recipe printed in a book
may or may not have the same effects as one closely held as a family secret, although if one is an herbalist and knows
the intended use and expected result, There probably many generic recipes that one could find.

In the tech world all know how to build and develop the many products that people use. The how its done are closely guarded secrets
with the gen ideas patented for protection



when you are using herbs i think the things to watch out for are
- know what you are doing - or get the herbs from someone who knows what they are doing
- make sure the herbs are clean, no preservatives (like sulfur) or pesticides...

and nowadays - for internal use
make sure you know your herb drug interactions -
as its more common for people now to be on medication then it is to find someone who is not on any medication...



second -- just to illustrate my point I will tell you from personal experience
that I have met teachers (years ago.. now)
that kept their iron palm formula as a closely guarded secret- only to be passed down to the right people..

what they actually had was Ku Yu-Cheung's formula...
and that formula has been in people's books many many times in chinese
even a guy published his book in English and included the formula (in Chinese) in his book
so really - its not that much of a secret -- lol






windwalker wrote:Another way to look at it might be a world where one has to earn a living....and will do it any way one can.
Many say what is called IMA has been changed to facilitate this. Earning a living.

The important thing about your book just from reading the post is that you outline methods
that you used in your own work verifying that they do what is advertised with expected results .

There are not many who can write books based on their own findings, which makes your writings even more
valuable for those looking for this type of information.

Interesting comments about the iron hand training. I learned indirectly and used to practice what was called burning hand
the focus as you mentioned in thinking back on it was the hand....cooking it more or less in a large pot of jow.....
I had asked for the recipe at one time from a noted teacher, in a kind way he said "unless your a direct student its not something I
share with outsiders"

The same could be said for many practices concerning MA in gen...
not many willing or feeling its wise to open up to the gen public.



there is earning a living
and there is stealing...

people should at least have the decency that when they steal your formula
they should change it a little
and then claim that it is the original, or the older, or the best
and all the others are but pale comparisons to the true unaltered secrets that they have for sale...
;D ;D



and just to be clear
I never learned the practices that are in this book
(i have stated this before..)

i was relating some other practices that I learned
to illustrate that attaining skill in filling the abdomen and torso is fairly easy with the right training




Franklin
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Re: New Translation Available - Nei Gong 13 Exercises Illustrate

Postby wiesiek on Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:52 am

..."it usually goes straight to sending the qi to the hands
and strengthening the hands...
now for it to work and the hands to get strong-
it internal body also has to be strong
but the emphasis right away is straight on the hand..."

:)
I always was in the >hard stuff < 1st., camp -
When I begun my "iron fist" training,- I simply punched brick by >hammer hand< till it was break .
Don`t remember exact number of the punches needed for the 1st brick, but it was over 20, for sure :o /it was nicely fired red, not the Chinese clay, dough/.
It was 45 y.a., and I didn`t had a clue about > internal magic<, just DT type of breathing, externally - some time spend with punching wooden board by open hands /all sides/ and push ups on the fists and fingers.

best
W
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Re: New Translation Available - Nei Gong 13 Exercises Illustrate

Postby Franklin on Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:43 pm

wiesiek wrote:..."it usually goes straight to sending the qi to the hands
and strengthening the hands...
now for it to work and the hands to get strong-
it internal body also has to be strong
but the emphasis right away is straight on the hand..."

:)
I always was in the >hard stuff < 1st., camp -
When I begun my "iron fist" training,- I simply punched brick by >hammer hand< till it was break .
Don`t remember exact number of the punches needed for the 1st brick, but it was over 20, for sure :o /it was nicely fired red, not the Chinese clay, dough/.
It was 45 y.a., and I didn`t had a clue about > internal magic<, just DT type of breathing, externally - some time spend with punching wooden board by open hands /all sides/ and push ups on the fists and fingers.

best
W




when I get young guys asking me about fighting...
and how to keep it real...
and develop the skill you can really use

I try to tell them that the hard core training- its best to do it safe..
try to develop skill without hurting yourself...

I got multiple injuries- broken bones, dislocations, soft tissue injuries, etc...
had a couple teeth disintegrate from old trauma
(had to look that one up when it happened--
and I found that sometimes old blunt force trauma will show up years and years later
with the tooth just falling apart for no reason - I found some references to this happening to american football players..)

when you are young -- you think its so great
but as you get older.. they come back to haunt you a bit.. ;D


I think when you get into the specific gongs like iron hand and iron body
its best to train them safe and in a way that doesn't do any damage

just my 2 cents..

Franklin
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Re: New Translation Available - Nei Gong 13 Exercises Illustrate

Postby wiesiek on Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:33 am

when you are young -- you think its so great
but as you get older.. they come back to haunt you a bit.. ;D

yup,
30years gigong practice don`t fully heal couple of years not so quite correct trainings :'(
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