Ranking System

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Ranking System

Postby MaartenSFS on Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:42 pm

There have been past threads about developing ranking systems for CMA, especially IMA. I thought that I'd share the one that my Master created and how I have implemented it. First, I just cut-and-pasted the description below from my website:

Ranking
级别 - jíbié

To help organise the curriculum, add some incentive to train hard and maintain social order, students of Shanzhaiquan and Shanzhaidao are divided into ranks. The unarmed and armed ranks are separate, though they are quite complementary and learning one helps the other.

士 - shì - Soldier - As a peasant conscript one can expect to take a beating whilst learning the basics.
尉 - wèi - Junior Officer - Attaining this rank means that one has reached the intermediary level.
校 - xiào - Field Officer - Attaining this rank means that one has reached the advanced level.

将 - jiàng - General
- Upon being accepted as a disciple, attaining this rank means that one has learned all publicly-taught aspects of the system and may now learn the secret training methods and techniques and take on students of their own.

帅 - shuài - Commander in Chief
- Upon defeating one's fellow students and disciples in an in-house tournament, attaining this rank means that one has learned and can use the complete system and is allowed to take on their own disciples.

Now let me explain what is taught at every rank:

士兵 - shìbīng (Soldier)
一) 热炉功 - rèlúgōng (上半) - This is the first set of foundation training warm-up exercises.
二) 基础十二式 - jīchǔ shíèrshì - These are the Twelve Core Techniques and are taught as a standing Qigong exercise and as line drills with and without weights
三) 踢腿训练 - tītuǐ xùnliàn - These are stretch-kicking drills

尉官 - wèiguān (Junior Officer)
一) 热炉功 - rèlúgōng (下半) - This is the second set of foundation training warm-up exercises.
二) 五式拳 - wǔshìquán - These are the Five Core Fist techniques, which slightly resembles the Five Element Fists from Xingyiquan
三) 游戏 - yóuxì - Games that train certain skills for lack of a better word.

校官 - xiàoguān (Field Officer)
一) 散手系统 - sànshǒu xìtǒng - Free-Fighting System; this is a group of combinations that can be mixed and matched with entering and finishing techniques and short sequences
二) 四把锤 - sìbǎchuí - Four Hammers; these line drills are from Xinyiliuhequan and help to generate power from different angles
三) 跌法训练 - diēfǎ xùnliàn - Break-falling

将军 - jiāngjūn (General)
一) 密传功法 - mìchuán gōngfǎ - Secret Internal Power Training Methods (some are taught earlier on)
二) 对打训练 - duìdǎ xùnliàn - Partner Drills and Sparring; this only means that this module is finished by this point, but we will have done sparring from day one
三) 试力训练 - shìlì xùnliàn - These exercises are designed to train different types of internal power and test whether on has them or not

×) 比赛 - bǐsài - Competition - An in-house tournament against all other students and disciples intended to prove that a disciple can use the art against resisting opponents

元帅 - yuánshuài (Commander in Chief) - There are always more details to learn, but by this point it becomes more self-study

I have also divided my swordsmanship curriculum into ranks like this. Sorry that it's a bit messy. I really don't have a lot of time these days. Notice how there aren't many ranks and things are taught in logical order, as needed, with an emphasis on practical usage. As for how to show off these ranks an armband or something would be sufficient. Hopefully some of you found this helpful or at least interesting.

The most important thing, as a teacher, is to make sure that your students are learning how to defend themselves in an efficient way. Don't feed them bullshit and spare them an arse-kicking or an untimely death! They can come back for more depth and your lovely personality.
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Re: Ranking System

Postby roger hao on Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:00 pm

As a peasant conscript one can expect to take a beating whilst learning the basics.

and..................

first set of foundation training warm-up exercises

Sounds like two different things. Is the first exaggeration or is the second understatement?
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Re: Ranking System

Postby MaartenSFS on Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:15 am

They are both true, but yes the first is a slight exaggeration.
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Re: Ranking System

Postby windwalker on Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:24 am

Image
http://jkdlibrary.com/bruce-lees-ranking-systems/182/

The system that Bruce Lee used...

the beginning rank and highest rank are the same
very cool
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ranking System

Postby origami_itto on Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:48 am

Rank is in the hand
The form is the notes, the quan is the music
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Re: Ranking System

Postby MaartenSFS on Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:25 am

That's interesting. I like his idea of ending where he started, but I really don't understand why he would give two of his students special ranks. That's quite odd. Interestingly, if we take out the last three ranks his ranking system is almost identical to ours.
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Re: Ranking System

Postby Taijikid on Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:57 am

Your ranking system naming is according to the Military ranking. Some gangs/secret societies in the chinese community use the same ranking system.
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Re: Ranking System

Postby Bhassler on Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:26 am

MaartenSFS wrote:The most important thing, as a teacher, is to make sure that your students are learning how to defend themselves in an efficient way. Don't feed them bullshit and spare them an arse-kicking or an untimely death! They can come back for more depth and your lovely personality.


If that's the case, then what's with the esoteric ranking system? Why not just say beginner, intermediate, and advanced? And how does defending oneself in an efficient way relate to "secret training methods and techniques"?
Last edited by Bhassler on Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ranking System

Postby MaartenSFS on Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:21 pm

It's not esoteric at all. As was mentioned, it follows ancient military ranking. Some things are secret until a student has proven themselves worthy (hard-working, dedicated etc.) and of good character. I can't have just anyone running around with this stuff! It all builds up naturally with this progression. By the time they get to the secret stuff they will be ready for it.
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Re: Ranking System

Postby .Q. on Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:26 pm

Personally I don't like ranks but I can see a point to them. However, using military rank names for MA seems like a bad idea.
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Re: Ranking System

Postby Giles on Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:44 am

.Q. wrote:Personally I don't like ranks but I can see a point to them. However, using military rank names for MA seems like a bad idea.


I agree in both instances. Even without the possible parallel cited by taijikid, this military-style ranking would create certain expectations for me as a potential student who knows nothing about you personally, Maarten. I would suspect a fairly authoritarian approach by the trainer and maybe by other more experienced students, not many smiles during training and maybe a "no questions, just shut up and train" atmosphere. Depending on what I want (consciously or unconsciously) that could attract me or put me off.
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Re: Ranking System

Postby Daniel-san on Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:17 am

MaartenSFS wrote:一) 热炉功 - rèlúgōng (上半) - This is the first set of foundation training warm-up exercises.
一) 热炉功 - rèlúgōng (下半) - This is the second set of foundation training warm-up exercises.


Any videos of these?
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Re: Ranking System

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:16 pm

Giles wrote:
.Q. wrote:Personally I don't like ranks but I can see a point to them. However, using military rank names for MA seems like a bad idea.


I agree in both instances. Even without the possible parallel cited by taijikid, this military-style ranking would create certain expectations for me as a potential student who knows nothing about you personally, Maarten. I would suspect a fairly authoritarian approach by the trainer and maybe by other more experienced students, not many smiles during training and maybe a "no questions, just shut up and train" atmosphere. Depending on what I want (consciously or unconsciously) that could attract me or put me off.

Anyone that has trained with me knows that I am not authoritarian, but if people are afraid of a little work I'd rather not teach them - especially now that I have a day job that pays the bills.
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Re: Ranking System

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:20 pm

Daniel-san wrote:
MaartenSFS wrote:一) 热炉功 - rèlúgōng (上半) - This is the first set of foundation training warm-up exercises.
一) 热炉功 - rèlúgōng (下半) - This is the second set of foundation training warm-up exercises.


Any videos of these?

No, no videos. They include exercises to stretch and warm up most of the body and simultaneously train specific skills, such as Tongbiquan-like exercises to loosen the shoulders in preparation for learning Shuaibeishou, for example.
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Re: Ranking System

Postby Giles on Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:41 am

MaartenSFS wrote: Anyone that has trained with me knows that I am not authoritarian, but if people are afraid of a little work I'd rather not teach them - especially now that I have a day job that pays the bills.


I'm sure you're not authoritarian in person.
I like to train quite hard and for long periods when in groups, but I prefer to do this in a group or school atmosphere which is a little more easygoing. I push myself from the inside and don't like people pushing me in a 'military' manner from the outside (or not as standard, anyway). My feedback in this case is about the (probably inaccurate) impression that this ranking system might create when people read it on your website. Or might not create - it's all up to you anyway. :)
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