Bagua vs tactical walk

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Bagua vs tactical walk

Postby GrahamB on Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:39 am

It always struck me that the "mud stepping" of Bagua looked a lot like what you see SWAT teams doing in movies:



Survivalists love a bit of bagua stepping too:



Thoughts?
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Re: Bagua vs tactical walk

Postby Bao on Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:45 am

Interesting... Mud walk might have developed from carrying heavy weapons or bows where you have to keep aiming while moving?
... or maybe it was from a temple ritual, just a way to walk silently so to not disturb other monks meditating or sleeping?

Anyway, fun to think about. :)
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Re: Bagua vs tactical walk

Postby edededed on Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:35 am

There are some similarities for sure - bagua also tries to avoid bobbing up and down, although not related to aiming to shoot a gun.
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Re: Bagua vs tactical walk

Postby Trick on Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:44 am

Have those SWAT’s move in circles you got the upper hand on them
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Re: Bagua vs tactical walk

Postby GrahamB on Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:19 am

If you were advancing slowly through a forest with a drawn bow, not sure where the enemy was.... that's pretty much how you'd step on instinct I think.
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Re: Bagua vs tactical walk

Postby wiesiek on Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:43 am

main goal here is to keep center of the mass on even level,
- rolling ball principle,
place where TJ meet Bagua :)
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Re: Bagua vs tactical walk

Postby Trick on Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:11 am

GrahamB wrote:If you were advancing slowly through a forest with a drawn bow, not sure where the enemy was.... that's pretty much how you'd step on instinct I think.

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Re: Bagua vs tactical walk

Postby roger hao on Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:09 am

Next level -
Slide step
Rippling step
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Re: Bagua vs tactical walk

Postby KEND on Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:34 am

The significance of 'mud stepping' was brought home to me while walking through a rice field in Szechuan. The Chinese ladies seemed to do very well but if I didn't step carefully, plonking down the lead foot and carefully transferring the weight I would have ended up on my ass in thick brown mud. The sliding step wushu seems to favor would have landed me in the same predicament. I imagine ninjas step the same way slowly transferring weight to prevent stairs from creaking
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Re: Bagua vs tactical walk

Postby BruceP on Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:00 am

The stand of sparse conifers in which that lady is demonstrating the 'fox walk' might just be for demonstration purposes, and works fine on that particular bit if ground, but it's a whole different thing to walk silently through dense aspen, alder and willow, where the undergrowth and floor is comprised of all sorts of plants and dead material that crunches and snaps under only a little pressure. Her eyes are fixed on each prospective footfall as well.

GrahamB wrote:If you were advancing slowly through a forest with a drawn bow, not sure where the enemy was.... that's pretty much how you'd step on instinct I think.


The bow wouldn't be drawn. Something I wrote way back when;

...The game changed. Instead of heading the buck off for an ambush, he was now stalking.

As he made his way through the brush, he came to a tangle of low branches between a few trees. Then I saw it. He brought his right foot heel-heel with his left and as he sank on his right leg into a squat, he extended his left beneath the tangle. With his left hand, he fed his bow through the opening along the length of his left leg while leaving his right arm bent back to keep his arrow from snagging until he'd gotten the bow through. Then he shifted his body forward onto his left leg, unweighting his right and pulling himself back to standing on the other side of the tangle. A more perfect snake-creeps-down you will never see. As he crept toward the low brush between himself and the deer, he was careful to step on roots that were available above ground at the bases of any small aspen trees. As he made his way along he would stop in mid-step and half-draw his bow as though he thought maybe he had a clear enough shot. Some very nice golden-roosters, I must say. Nobody taught him those natural movement patterns. They were of necessity
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Re: Bagua vs tactical walk

Postby johnwang on Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:08 pm

- The SWAT teams footwork is the low horse stance walk.
- The quite forest walk is toes down first and heel down afterward walk.
- The Bagua mud walk is the feet sliding on the ground walk.

There are all different.

The reason that you do mud walk is you don't want to step on something sharp in the dark.
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Re: Bagua vs tactical walk

Postby windwalker on Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:46 pm

So how do we practice no tilting the hip? By not lifting the heel or the ball of the foot, therefore breaking those linkages. So we practice this walk, this mud step, where the upper body is perfectly upright as if we are sitting in a sedan. With sufficient reinforcement, this will become our habit, what we can do without thinking.

After you have achieved that, even when you lift your heel or toe, you don’t tilt your hips.

Mud step is so named because that’s what this looks like.
And if we are actually on slippery surfaces, we may walk this way. But if not, we don’t absolutely have to walk this way.

https://internalmartialart.wordpress.co ... -mud-step/

Let’s be scientific here, mud stepping is not the fastest way to move around. It’s a special method for dangerous surfaces, discovered by people long before invention of Bagua Zhang. If you are stranded on think ice, or walking along thin ledges on the outside of a building, you will do this naturally without anyone having to teach you first right? There safety is the paramount concern, not speed. That’s why you will see masters do heel toe walking when fighting. If you can do those without upsetting centered neutrality, you have the best of both worlds.

This is like the exercise where people put books on top of their heads to develop good posture. After you achieve the goal of the practice, you can put the book away.


agree with this once the skill set is ingrained no need to do it anymore.
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bagua vs tactical walk

Postby C.J.W. on Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:58 pm

IMO, it's quite simple if you look at it from the perspective of application.

Cheng style favors mud-stepping because the founder, Cheng Tinhua, was a Shuaijiao guy who would have preferred to maintain contact with the ground at all times when stepping to avoid being swept off his feet or taken down in a fight.

Yin style, on the other hand, uses normal heel-toe (lion) stepping as well as crane stepping (lifting the knees to torso height) due to the ease of making rapid transitions and incorporating devastating low-line kicks.
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Re: Bagua vs tactical walk

Postby windwalker on Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:12 pm

C.J.W. wrote:IMO, it's quite simple if you look at it from the perspective of application.

Cheng style favors mud-stepping because the founder, Cheng Tinhua, was a Shuaijiao guy who would have preferred to maintain contact with the ground at all times when stepping to avoid being swept off his feet or taken down in a fight.

Yin style, on the other hand, uses normal heel-toe (lion) stepping as well as crane stepping (lifting the knees to torso height) due to the ease of making rapid transitions and incorporating devastating low-line kicks.


agree, the tactical walk is also based on application..

Combat Glide should supersede slow and methodical Bunker shield styles of walking options, such as The Groucho or The Step and Drag, but is not intended to eliminate individual or natural choices of walking styles. Rather, Combat Glide is intended to combine a natural walking style with sure tactical elements such as smooth, level, balanced, determined, and direct, while advancing, firing and contacting an armed adversary.

The technique incorporates the elements of the stationary position of Combat Shield while adding the next level of on the move. The feet are shoulder width apart; the spine is vertical with a slight forward lean at the hips; the shoulders are raised; the head is down with neck pulled into the body like a turtle; and the main trunk is squared off to the threat while maximizing the ballistic coverage afforded by the shield.

Breathing should be natural and unrestricted. Respiratory efficiency diminishes in direct, inverse proportion to the three ascending levels of motor skills: fine to gross to complex. Adding the influences of major stressors multiplies the breathing deterioration factor. Smooth breathing should thus become a component of Combat Glide.

The body should remain flexible and nonrigid, while the feet should track directly forward, sideward or rearward in a measured, low, full contact, secure, and positive advance.

Steps should be shorter than the standard 30 inch stride, yet not overdoing step range to exaggerate in either giant or baby step extremes. Rather, a comfortable step distance should be achieved; one which feels appropriate to the conditions of the surfaces encountered.

Whether a mission requires a forward, sidestep, reverse step, or any combination of movements, the Combat Glide should be performed so as to reduce, or eliminate, undesirable rocking or motion of the shield and the weapon platform. When moving in any direction, the feet should NOT cross each other.https://policeandsecuritynews.com/2017/ ... bat-glide/
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Re: Bagua vs tactical walk

Postby johnwang on Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:29 pm

Which method is better?

1. Bagu mud step.
2. Each step is a kick and each kick is a step.

IMO, 2 > 1.

If all your steps are just to land on your opponent's knee joint, you don't need mud step.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkMqF-J ... e=youtu.be
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