Bagua vs tactical walk

[Trick]

. As far as I know, this training is not part of the Bagua mud step. Why?

Maybe because mud step is not primary an combat technique, but more an leg/feet awareness practice ?

- What do you mean "leg/feet awareness"?
- What does awareness mean?
- How can you walk if you don't feel where your legs and feet are?

I'm not very good at "abstract' discussion.

Yeah well “awareness” might be the wrong/incomplete wording, there are more details to its practice, details that makes it an “internal” MA practice......As this is a IMA’s forum so what makes IMA’s practice an IMA’s practice has been mentioned many times in threads here, so I won’t elaborate further....The Liu WanFu quote in Windwalkers post tells that of the internal martial arts practice what’s meets the inexperienced(in IMA practice)onlookers eyes is mostly what is not to be seen...sort of...So when you see Bagua mud step, you see it as an combat technique, when it’s not.

[Trick]

I'm sorry to say that this kind of Taiji principle is too conservative.

- Always keep your head straight up.
- Never move your center out of your base.
- ...

Heads up and keep your center. If one walks through life like that, life will probably be good. Conservative TJQ seem to be a good teacher.

[johnwang]

So when you see Bagua mud step, you see it as an combat technique, when it’s not.

Are you saying that

- Bagua is not a combat art?
- Mud step cannot be used in combat?

Why should anybody wastes his time to train Bagua if Bagua is not a combat art?

Heads up and keep your center. If one walks through life like that, life will probably be good. Conservative TJQ seem to be a good teacher.

Are you talking about "Taiji for health"?

[marvin8]

Good footwork should include balance and alignment with the ability to change—efficiently transition between defense and offense, not falling over.

Are we talking about old, sick, and weak who is afraid to fall and die right at that moment?

I'm sorry to say that this kind of Taiji principle is too conservative.

- Always keep your head straight up.
- Never move your center out of your base.
- ...

You left out the other part of my reply about the OP topic:

I disagree (in the context of circle walking/stepping). It is "bad" to practice stepping as described and shown in johnwang's "dynamic rooting" video.

@ :19 of your "dynamic rooting" video, you lose your balance because your head is beyond your foot. While trying to regain one's balance, one is vulnerable to an attack.

Can you explain or show "The easiest way to move is to take advantage on the gravity. . . . leaning is a must" while stepping/footwork?

The easiest way to move is to take advantage on the gravity. In order to do so, the leaning is a must.

1. You move your center outside of your base.
2. The gravity will pull you into that direction.
3. You then re-adjust your base so your center will be in your base again.
4. Repeat 1 - 3.

If you don't lean (move your center outside of your base), you will only use your own energy to move. You will not use the "gravity" to move.

The dynamic rooting (with leaning) is much more difficult to train than the static rooting (no leaning). . . .

dynamic rooting:

I disagree (in the context of circle walking/stepping). It is "bad" to practice stepping as described and shown in johnwang's "dynamic rooting" video.

Good footwork should include balance and alignment with the ability to change—efficiently transition between defense and offense, not falling over.

[Trick]

So when you see Bagua mud step, you see it as an combat technique, when it’s not.

Are you saying that

- Bagua is not a combat art?
- Mud step cannot be used in combat?

Why should anybody wastes his time to train Bagua if Bagua is not a combat art?

Heads up and keep your center. If one walks through life like that, life will probably be good. Conservative TJQ seem to be a good teacher.

Are you talking about "Taiji for health"?

Now you’re being deliberately silly

[johnwang]

Now you’re being deliberately silly

I'm talking about "combat only". If you are talking about "health only" then you and I will just like chicken talk to duck.

[johnwang]

While trying to regain one's balance, one is vulnerable to an attack.

Not if your opponent's body is under your control.

Can you explain or show "The easiest way to move is to take advantage on the gravity. . . . leaning is a must" ...

[marvin8]

While trying to regain one's balance, one is vulnerable to an attack.

Not if your opponent's body is under your control.

Can you explain or show "The easiest way to move is to take advantage on the gravity. . . . leaning is a must" ...

There may be a misunderstanding on my part. I would agree that one can practice being unbalanced during certain techniques (e.g., sacrifice throws). Although, tai chi may limit these type of throws. However in entry, striking and defense footwork, one should be balanced and aligned.

Some Bagua footwork including throws.

ilove puna
Published on Apr 10, 2010

Showing a demonstration of Chinese Pa Kua:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNQUtRjHAiA

[windwalker]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp7nT9u ... e=youtu.be

very close to what is done in some n-mantis work... a solo demo showing a throw with follow through, while remaining in control.
I would question the title of dynamic rooting vs dynamic equilibrium. What JW is showing to me seems to be the latter.

Physics has no word for "rooting" it does have a word pertaining to equilibrium. While we might talk about the title
the clip it self shows a moving body in equilibrium.

"In mechanics, it can be specifically defined as a state of a system where the system is in equilibrium, but the velocity is not zero (i.e. The system is moving at a constant velocity)." as shown in JW clip.

very similar to what is shown in this clip.
https://youtu.be/dA5-Q6wALTg

[Trick]

Now you’re being deliberately silly

I'm talking about "combat only". If you are talking about "health only" then you and I will just like chicken talk to duck.

The IMA’s solo exercises but perhaps TJQ more so have a multifaceted quality built in to them(as i see it). To a bigger or lesser extent quality of health and combat skill may come out of its practice, it depends on the player’s goals, understanding and focus. Maybe somehow because of this multifaceted aspect is why they don’t do well in combat sports environment. Most of those with a purely combat oriented mind will probably leave and take up wrestling for an example, some might still keep a toe or two or maybe a foot into the IMA(Taijiquan) practice in hope for some health benefits or maybe other reasons.........Now I’ll keep my chicken talk as I soon will head for the roasted duck restaurant..yummy

[GrahamB]

Found this interesting 'advanced silk reeling' video of Chen style - looks a lot like Bagua

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8JBxWQ ... e=youtu.be

[edededed]

Hmm - what do you mean by "drop your upper body?" Little hard to imagine...

When you bite your shin bone behind your opponent's ankle, your opponent will step back. You will need to use your hand to catch his ankle to achieve you "ankle pick". This will require some body flexibility training as part of the mud step training.

For example,

- You are in a right bow-arrow stance.
- Your right leg shin bone bites behind your opponent's left leading leg from inside.
- Your right hand reach to your right leg ankle (to catch your opponent's escaping left leg).
- Your left hand push back on your opponent's left shoulder.

If you integrate this training, your mud step will have good combat usage (as well as your flexibility training).

Thanks John - I think I kind of can picture it now.

The way I learned it, tangnibu is trained as an exercise to increase certain abilities (e.g. agility of movement).
Once you get some ability, you can learn specific application walking patterns, antui kicking methods, and so forth.

Some applications sound a bit similar to what you described, except some differences such as bagua tending to avoiding leaning, etc.

[johnwang]

bagua tending to avoiding leaning, etc.

If you don't lean, you can't reach to your opponent's ankle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXKHThq ... e=youtu.be

[marvin8]

Can you explain or show "The easiest way to move is to take advantage on the gravity. . . . leaning is a must" ...

There is no opponent to attack you, when one is skiing.

Again, you deleted part of my quote that was highlighted in blue:

Can you explain or show "The easiest way to move is to take advantage on the gravity. . . . leaning is a must" while stepping/footwork?

Can you explain . . . while stepping/footwork (not technique)?

[johnwang]

Can you explain . . . while stepping/footwork (not technique)?

You don't need lean just for stepping. You may need lean to execute some techniques. But I assume we are talking about how to use stepping footwork to train some technique.

Again if you are talking about use stepping footwork to gain health, I'll agree with you 100% that health doesn't require leaning.