Look what they done to my M.A., Ma

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Look what they done to my M.A., Ma

Postby Bugang on Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:55 pm

Hey,
just happened to stumble over a real bad taiji presentation (again). Sometimes you definitely know and sometimes it is like real satire.

I think Zhan Bo is good and it's worth checking out his descendants. Found one in London. but I immediately was sceptic when I read "the lieage bearer"'s talk about "13 levels"...
http://www.wutaiji.co.uk/training.html

Then saw a Video - My God was I shocked:
(don't bother to watch the whole thing, it's just too depressing)

I began to write a comment including tiny bits of irony, but then I thought: This will be deleted and my writing will be in vain. So here's to preserve my thoughts:

"Thanks for the Video. Saved me the effort to visit this "teacher"'s school, where they announce 13 levels of Taijiquan ablilites.
I suggest instead to begin with 5 Levels:
Level 1: Minimal Body Mechanics Knowledge of Taijiquan (Elbows down, Arms not locked, Arms never behind the body...)
Level 2: Balance, Wu-Style-specifics like 100 % Weight distribution, whole body movements (not just arm waving)
Level 3: Even Tempo, smooth movement, no standing up between steps...
Level 4: Intent, Structure, Zhong Ding,
Level 5: Honesty:
Don't tell us this has anything to do with Zhan Bo. I have seen his Form. Even for Shaolin your way of movement would be bad. Please stop pretending!"

As a witness see Zhan Bo doing his form:

Any other Examples of entertainingly visible distortions of Taiji or/and perception/depiction of reality?
Last edited by Bugang on Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Look what they done to my M.A., Ma

Postby Bugang on Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:59 pm

Just to make clear what I am refering to:



and...

for your entertainment...

(a tale of subtelty)
.....LALALALA....

Last edited by Bugang on Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Look what they done to my M.A., Ma

Postby MaartenSFS on Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:03 pm

I have been told that that video was to show the steps of the form in an exaggerated manner, to beginners.
Last edited by MaartenSFS on Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Look what they done to my M.A., Ma

Postby johnwang on Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:37 pm

Bugang wrote:Arms never behind the body...

What do you mean on this?
I'm still allergy to "push".
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Re: Look what they done to my M.A., Ma

Postby Bugang on Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:15 pm

2:36 , 3:38 , 4:06, 6:45 , 7:08 I could go on but I#m getting kind of bored, you get the Idea...
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Re: Look what they done to my M.A., Ma

Postby Bugang on Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:18 pm

MaartenSFS wrote:I have been told that that video was to show the steps of the form in an exaggerated manner, to beginners.


Why should beginners be shown the Form in a way, that is so "exaggerated" that it simply doesn't follow the principles anymore?
Shouldn't beginners be told the Form correctly?
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Re: Look what they done to my M.A., Ma

Postby Bugang on Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:27 pm

Here's another wonderful example. Wong Kiew Kit claims this is (Quan You) Wu Style.



More of a Shaolin flavour, the movements are not connected at all (check the isolated arm at 2:50 ).

Cobbler, stick to your trade.
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Re: Look what they done to my M.A., Ma

Postby MaartenSFS on Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:35 pm

I think that beginners shouldn't learn any forms. :p
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Re: Look what they done to my M.A., Ma

Postby Trick on Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:07 am

The vids I found with this Zhan bo, his form seem not very “strict”, but when I see him readjusting himself to a normal standing position he seem to have some hip problem(age related or injury?) in the “simple” applications he show, he show he knows. But the student demonstrating the form has a somewhat awkward expression......... During all my years in Dalian I often passed by this Chen Taiji group when taking my after dinner walks. They basically did just practice form and the students did it with good spirit but very poor form all the while the old teacher stood watching and chain smoking, i never saw him showing any moves or sequences he had a student to do that. In the begging he had quite a few students but with the years the group got smaller and smaller. Early this year I was back to Dalian. The Taiji group where now just two students and they showed quite some good form and the teacher interacted showing very nice form and application demonstrations.....I was surprised. But I wonder how many of his previous students will go out and act as teachers
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Re: Look what they done to my M.A., Ma

Postby GrahamB on Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:13 am

He was just weeding out the quitters ;D
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Re: Look what they done to my M.A., Ma

Postby Trick on Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:37 am

Haha, yes that could very well be so. And he actually looked kinda cool and sung standing there dressed in Taiji Pyjama and smoking whatever rolled up in that paper.
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Re: Look what they done to my M.A., Ma

Postby charles on Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:00 am

Bugang wrote:More of a Shaolin flavour, the movements are not connected at all (check the isolated arm at 2:50 ).


You watched that much of it??? I admire your ability to endure punishment. :o

Cobbler, stick to your trade.


Ouch.
Last edited by charles on Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Look what they done to my M.A., Ma

Postby Steve James on Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:53 pm

Back in the day, Wu Yinghua was the person the Wujianquan line chose to demo their art.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88F3zi_Zx3Q&t=54s

Currently, the senior instructor is Eddie Wu.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qcirv9KF2Y

Afa beginner forms, the Hong Kong branch of Wu style teach a "square" form before teaching a circular form. Seems like a lot, but their students were probably the best known tcc fighters in the region. Learning forms doesn't stop one from learning to use their art. However, if one knows how to fight (aopt knowing the art), then learning a form doesn't hurt unless it inhibits the pre-existing ability. That's when it becomes a classical mess.
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Re: Look what they done to my M.A., Ma

Postby middleway on Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:49 am

I think that beginners shouldn't learn any forms. :p


+1. I have had multiple IMA teachers say the same thing. Without building the engine to drive the movements there really isn't much value to waving the arms about.
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