B.K. Frantzis and spinal rehab?

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: B.K. Frantzis and spinal rehab?

Postby vagabond on Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:51 am

Graham, thank you for the recommendation, I'll pass it on. I think she already practices a version of ba duan jin, or did and will again when she's allowed to twist at the waist, but like you said there are so many variations
Cheers
vagabond
Huajing
 
Posts: 402
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:56 am

Re: B.K. Frantzis and spinal rehab?

Postby yeniseri on Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:50 am

Fa Xing wrote:Bruce Frantzis is not a medical or health practitioner, do not go to him. Please seek care with a qualified healthcare practitioner, especially in the rehabilitation of the spine.


Excellent response because qigong and taijiquan can damage the spine and cause severe ambulatory problems.
When I had a non cancerous growth removed from the mandible area (lower), my doctor mandated that no type of exercise should be done for about 2-3 months because it allowed stitches to completely heal. The spine is alot more dangerous when the use of a non-allopathic practitioner is involved in rehab of any kind.

Qigong does not and cannot prevent cancer, BTW
When fascism comes to US America, It will be wrapped in the US flag and waving a cross. An astute patriot
yeniseri
Wuji
 
Posts: 3797
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:49 pm
Location: USA

Re: B.K. Frantzis and spinal rehab?

Postby vagabond on Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:13 pm

Qigong does not and cannot prevent cancer, BTW


Pics or it didn't happen
vagabond
Huajing
 
Posts: 402
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:56 am

Re: B.K. Frantzis and spinal rehab?

Postby Fa Xing on Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:58 pm

yeniseri wrote:
Fa Xing wrote:Bruce Frantzis is not a medical or health practitioner, do not go to him. Please seek care with a qualified healthcare practitioner, especially in the rehabilitation of the spine.


Excellent response because qigong and taijiquan can damage the spine and cause severe ambulatory problems.
When I had a non cancerous growth removed from the mandible area (lower), my doctor mandated that no type of exercise should be done for about 2-3 months because it allowed stitches to completely heal. The spine is alot more dangerous when the use of a non-allopathic practitioner is involved in rehab of any kind.

Qigong does not and cannot prevent cancer, BTW


It obviously can depend on the type of practitioner, as well as the training. Even my profession, chiropractic, the variance amongst practitioners is astounding and often disturbing. Don't get me started on Chinese osteopathy/bone-setting techniques, it's not all bad but I shudder at some of the stuff I see.
Dr. Troy Schott
Doctor of Chiropractic
Lead Instructor, Ground Dragon Martial Arts
https://grounddragonma.com/
Fa Xing
Anjing
 
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:11 am

Re: B.K. Frantzis and spinal rehab?

Postby Ron Panunto on Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:00 pm

yeniseri wrote:Excellent response because qigong and taijiquan can damage the spine and cause severe ambulatory problems.


How so, especially with taijiquan? I am recovering from severe spinal injury and all my therapists have the highest regard and recommendation for taijiquan, which I am faultingly trying to relearn, as I just learned how to walk again.
Ron Panunto
Wuji
 
Posts: 1310
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 6:33 am
Location: Langhorne, PA, USA

Re: B.K. Frantzis and spinal rehab?

Postby wayne hansen on Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:06 pm

When doctors recommend tai chi for any health regime what are they referring to
A lot of what they call tai chi I don't
There are far simpler ways than tai chi to achieve spinal fitness
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
wayne hansen
Wuji
 
Posts: 5660
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:52 pm

Re: B.K. Frantzis and spinal rehab?

Postby Peacedog on Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:43 pm

Most forms of tai chi utilize rebounding power as their primary power generation method. This requires the attacker to absorb the mass of the defender in order to discharge. By definition this results in loading on the spine.

If done properly by someone in good health the results can be quite remarkable as many here can attest to.

That said, a large number of martial tai chi practitioners I've met have joint and disk issues as a result.
Peacedog
Great Old One
 
Posts: 2194
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 5:22 am
Location: Standing right next to your girl....

Re: B.K. Frantzis and spinal rehab?

Postby wayne hansen on Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:59 pm

Not how I see tai chi
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
wayne hansen
Wuji
 
Posts: 5660
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:52 pm

Re: B.K. Frantzis and spinal rehab?

Postby Steve James on Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:45 pm

Yang tcc (yep, the "health" versions) are the only tcmas known specifically for rehabilitative ability. Many of the most well-respected masters claimed they were "healed" by tcc, and that's why they continued. TT Liang was one notable example.

Having had spinal surgery myself, I can say that walking puts just as much stress on the spine as doing a Yang form. Actually, I'd say it puts a lot more, especially when walking up, down, or on uneven surfaces. But, in my case, I wouldn't say that's a bad thing. Climbing and descending steps is great exercise --just dangerous if the handrail isn't used, especially if there are balance issues.

It's hard to imagine how scary a steep flight of steel stairs can be if you have problems walking.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 21137
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: B.K. Frantzis and spinal rehab?

Postby wayne hansen on Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:38 pm

So all yang style is rejuvinative and other styles are not ?
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
wayne hansen
Wuji
 
Posts: 5660
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:52 pm

Re: B.K. Frantzis and spinal rehab?

Postby Steve James on Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:58 pm

wayne hansen wrote:So all yang style is rejuvinative and other styles are not ?


You're asking me whether they are or aren't. I'm saying that Yang style was known for it. In some ways it was a criticism: i.e., tcc for sick people. There were, and are, plenty of tcc styles that argue they are not health oriented.

I'd say that xingyi and bagua are also "good for health," but not primarily known for it. The same is true for karate, though. The difference is only in the nature of the exercise. Old, ill people can do some things and not others. Simple as that. How much they can improve through doing one form of exercise or another is a whole 'nother subject. Just because one style is good for health doesn't mean it's bad for fighting or vice versa.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 21137
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: B.K. Frantzis and spinal rehab?

Postby Trick on Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:08 am

Is the “Taiji” back/spine compatible with lifting heavy objects from ground level ? Look at weight lifters preparing their back alignment for a dead lift, or look at their back position in the snatch, clean and jerk, is it the same alignment of the back as in Taijiquan ? What I think, if a “hard core” TJQ practitioner who is not used to any hard labour with heavy lifting suddenly has to do such they might use their back in a wrong way and get injured?....Just speculating.
Trick

 

Re: B.K. Frantzis and spinal rehab?

Postby wayne hansen on Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:11 am

In my experience people with correct tai chi training adapt to physical labour quite easily
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
wayne hansen
Wuji
 
Posts: 5660
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:52 pm

Re: B.K. Frantzis and spinal rehab?

Postby Bao on Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:43 am

Agreed. Making good use of the body as using leg strength and dantian/hara/belly to lift and carry heavy things should come natural for an ok Tai Chi player. 8-)
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog)
- Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert
- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
Bao
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9007
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: High up north

Re: B.K. Frantzis and spinal rehab?

Postby Ron Panunto on Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:31 am

wayne hansen wrote:When doctors recommend tai chi for any health regime what are they referring to
A lot of what they call tai chi I don't
There are far simpler ways than tai chi to achieve spinal fitness


Hi Wayne,

I agree. Before my spinal cord injury I was doing "martial taiji," including the 2nd Chen routine and weapons forms including the kwandao, and of course, push hands. After the operation to fuse my C1 and C2 vertebrae in June I went to Moss Rehab for 1 month of intensive therapy. I am now doing outpatient therapy at St. Mary's hospital. After the accident I was essentially paralyzed from the waste down. All of my therapists were, and are, amazed at my progress and they say that it is most likely due to my prior taiji practice which employed balance and whole body movement. My therapists said that most of their patients don't know one body part from the next, and that it is a pleasure working with someone with a martial arts background.

Aside from my regular therapy at the hospital, I am working on my fallback form, the Yang 24 form (Chenjia is out of the question). In my present condition it is still very difficult to maintain balance while stepping, and partial paralysis of my left hand prevents me from completing the upper body parts of the form, however, I will persist.

So I agree with you, in that what I now do, and what therapy doctors recommend, is not your (and mine) "martial taiji," but it is the best that we can do until we heal. Most of my doctors say that I will never heal completely and be the person that I was before the accident, but I don't buy into that, and I will do it through Taij - whatever the style.

Ron
Ron Panunto
Wuji
 
Posts: 1310
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 6:33 am
Location: Langhorne, PA, USA

PreviousNext

Return to Xingyiquan - Baguazhang - Taijiquan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 26 guests