the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Posted: **Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:02 am**

wayne hansen wrote:In my experience people with correct tai chi training adapt to physical labour quite easily

I wouldn’t know, I got used to heavy lifting from a young age long before I started practicing TJQ. I would guess that also would be the case amongst heavy laborers that found their way into TJQ practice....Was it in the “There are no secrets” by Wolfe Lowenthal where he remember how ZMQ almost could not hold on to a bowling ball ?

Posted: **Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:10 am**

Most of my doctors say that I will never heal completely and be the person that I was before the accident, but I don't buy into that, and I will do it through Taij - whatever the style.

Yep. "Style" doesn't matter when it comes to one's health. My own operation (C3-4 discectomy and fusion) was seven years ago. The doctors said that it wasn't a matter of getting back to where I was, but just an attempt to stop it from getting worse. The neurosurgeon said that if I could spit, swallow, piss and shit, the operation would be a success. I could stand, but not for long, and I had to relearn walking --which was interesting.

Anyway, I don't think that YLC style is better, necessarily; I think that if one can perform all the basic movements, then one's overall physical fitness is ok. That sounds silly to a young person who does wushu, gymnastics or muay thai. But, ask someone who's 80 or someone 40 who's been injured. They'd love to be able to do a Snake Creeps Down and Cock Stands on One Leg. That's assuming there are not other issues such as weight, alcohol, drugs, or poverty.

When I wake up, I also remind myself to be thankful that I can put on my tee shirt, button my regular shirt, and put on my pants while standing up --which I told my neurosurgeon was something I used to gauge my progress. Daily doings had to become part of the rehab. In my 40s, I had a teacher in his 70s who'd say that "one leg standing" should be done whenever possible.

Posted: **Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:05 pm**

Ron the words martial tai chi mean nothing to me
It is either tai chi or not
Many people who claim martial tai chi are often further away than those that claim spiritual or health
Throw the 24 away its stepping patern is not conducive to all round healing
You are much better off just doing weight shifting and stepping with multi directional changes

Posted: **Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:06 pm**

Yeah Steve, "one leg standing" on a Styrofoam pillow is part of my therapy, and I too have just remastered dressing myself. I will celebrate my 74th birthday on Halloween, so all of this has been quite a challenge.

Posted: **Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:14 pm**

Trick I wouldn't take Wolfe too seriously
His statement about why America beat China to the moon and his mistaking a Taoist exercise for Cheng trying to rub his pot belly away show his niatevety a nd chengs sence of humor

Posted: **Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:24 pm**

Haven't read the other comments just jumping in but in my experience I would say BKF's spinal qigong material is designed for people who have healthy backs and spines and not for people who are injured.

I am not saying this to take away from his knowledge or material because he has the knowledge and material to fix and help people with spinal issues the problem is he doesn't teach in a one to one format from what I have last heard or seen a over a decade ago.

I believe when he first arrived from China he did teach a few people one on one what they individually needed but today he mostly teaches to very large groups of people and for someone in your sister's situation it can be very impersonal.

Perhaps you may want to learn BKF's material and show some to your sister that might be useful but I wouldn't have anyone in that situation pay all that money and travel to spend a week trying to learn something hoping she will get individual attention.

Feel free to PM me for more info if needed.

Posted: **Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:24 pm**

Steve I can see things in the Chen style hat may hamper recovery but it is more a matter of the intensity that you do the movements with than the style
A student of mine rang me from the UK to ask about a cousin of his
The cousin had total spinal fusion and was the number one student of Britons leading tai chi teachers
He wanted permission to teach him our stuff
I gave him permission to teach him the 5 sung ging
A year later the cousin was running 7 miles a day
He has now taken over from his teacher and demands huge amounts for private lessons

Posted: **Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:29 pm**

Ron, yep, I did the soft ball stands a lot. Ya know, what also helped me was dancing --salsa for me, and I mean just doing simple steps. I was affected from my left arm to my right leg. It was difficult at first just to keep my stepping rhythmic. I even started having particular tunes to play while I walked.

Posted: **Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:38 pm**

Steve I can see things in the Chen style hat may hamper recovery but it is more a matter of the intensity that you do the movements with than the style

I've never studied Chen style, but I can agree that it's how one does a movement, rather than the movement itself that can be harmful, or not conducive to healing. I think it depends on the injury/condition and its seriousness. Some people have pain, and that tells them what's good for them or not. Whether it helps them improve is another question that depends on what they want to do.

I have no doubt that people recover and rehabilitate using almost any sport.

Posted: **Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:52 pm**

vagabond wrote:.

She's in Tucson so I know Vince Black is a resource in the area however she may be staying with family in the Seattle area while she needs help with day to day stuff so any resources in those areas would be appreciated as well.
Thanks for any help you can think of

It may help to see some of his work and if it makes sense for what your looking for...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA6ao4UyiiA

Just reading the post to all those injured. Best hope and thoughts for your recovery...
getting a little long in the tooth myself, starting to feel the effects
of the things done younger in the name of training. Kinda gives pause for reflection.

in talking to some fellow CMA practitioners in the City, we often talk about
some of the people we knew now gone,,,Ben Lo, being the latest...
all arrive at the same end, may the journey be a good one.

Posted: **Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:18 pm**

Thanks for sharing. I haven't seen BKF in a long time.

I enjoyed my time training with him and his shock jock style back then the main problem is one has to go through his instructors to get his material while only seeing the big guy a few times a year that seminar style might work well for some but for one with a broken back I am skeptical.

But as I recall when I was training with him he did have people in that situation who did just that. I am not sure where they are today or how things worked out for them perhaps someone here knows.

Personally, when he ended his regular classes I moved on. The deep knowledge of CMA isn't a mystery it just requires a teacher you can train with everyday. No different from becoming a master musician.

Posted: **Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:28 pm**

Ron Panunto wrote:
wayne hansen wrote:When doctors recommend tai chi for any health regime what are they referring to
A lot of what they call tai chi I don't
There are far simpler ways than tai chi to achieve spinal fitness

Hi Wayne,

I agree. Before my spinal cord injury I was doing "martial taiji," including the 2nd Chen routine and weapons forms including the kwandao, and of course, push hands. After the operation to fuse my C1 and C2 vertebrae in June I went to Moss Rehab for 1 month of intensive therapy. I am now doing outpatient therapy at St. Mary's hospital. After the accident I was essentially paralyzed from the waste down. All of my therapists were, and are, amazed at my progress and they say that it is most likely due to my prior taiji practice which employed balance and whole body movement. My therapists said that most of their patients don't know one body part from the next, and that it is a pleasure working with someone with a martial arts background.

Aside from my regular therapy at the hospital, I am working on my fallback form, the Yang 24 form (Chenjia is out of the question). In my present condition it is still very difficult to maintain balance while stepping, and partial paralysis of my left hand prevents me from completing the upper body parts of the form, however, I will persist.

So I agree with you, in that what I now do, and what therapy doctors recommend, is not your (and mine) "martial taiji," but it is the best that we can do until we heal. Most of my doctors say that I will never heal completely and be the person that I was before the accident, but I don't buy into that, and I will do it through Taij - whatever the style.

Ron

Wow, sorry to hear that. All the best for a complete recovery!

Posted: **Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:29 pm**

Seems like car crashes in the martial arts world must be way above the average

Posted: **Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:04 am**

Fast’n furious

Posted: **Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:26 am**

wayne hansen wrote:Seems like car crashes in the martial arts world must be way above the average

Mine wasn't a car crash Wayne. I was drinking a cup of coffee on my daughter's patio one Saturday morning, and it went down my trachea instead of my esophagus. I started choking then blacked out, fell off the patio and hit the bridge of my nose on a fence, which snapped my head back and broke the vertebrae and my right arm. The kicker is that the patio was only a foot high.

the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

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