Baguaquan strategy

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Baguaquan strategy

Postby Bao on Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:39 am

cloudz wrote:you make it sound like you can make all the choices you like.
but I very much doubt you could attempt to fight more than one person without that being quite a likely thing to happen at some point - turning your back.
regardless of how great you or anyone might be.


Still this is a demo. If you make a demo you try to keep to the things you know. So what you don't know will show as well.
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Re: Baguaquan strategy

Postby AL2016 on Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:18 pm

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Re: Baguaquan strategy

Postby cloudz on Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:55 am

Bao wrote:
cloudz wrote:you make it sound like you can make all the choices you like.
but I very much doubt you could attempt to fight more than one person without that being quite a likely thing to happen at some point - turning your back.
regardless of how great you or anyone might be.


Still this is a demo. If you make a demo you try to keep to the things you know. So what you don't know will show as well.


I don't think he so much ' turns his back' but does show or flash his back ... on occasion. It's spinning for all intents and purposes. My point was that if you have more than one person it is quite easy for one of them to get behind or to the side as you are facing up to one person. Unless you have your back to a wall and stay there not exposing your back to the second, third attacker is impossible. You are just vulnarable to that in any such scenario you care to set up really. You can't demand perfection from a chaotic environment that lends itself to imperfect scenarios arising. The reason to train or even demo such scenario work would be to be aware of the dangers primarily. Only then could you try to see solutions - if there are any possibilities for them at least.

Just think of it in terms of a thought experiment and you were facing 2 or three carbon copies of yourself. Or think how hard it is to overcome someone equal to you. 2 people equal to you would sort you out easily. 3 of your equals together would just destroy you and be all over you - the spare 2 could do almost anything they liked.. I think in terms of multiples vs. multiples the style of moving that involves turning and or spinning can be very useful - I think SDC demo's it pretty well. He also has the background and reputation that you know he would be a difficult proposition for attackers; least of all how he generates great striking power from such efficient movement.
Last edited by cloudz on Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:15 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Baguaquan strategy

Postby Yeung on Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:17 am

Just for those who are interested in one against three or Polydamas performance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IrE348edrM
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Re: Baguaquan strategy

Postby windwalker on Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:21 am

Bao wrote:Not good to turn your back to your opponents and throw them everywhere.


yep not a good idea...lets so how a boxer would handle it...its not a demo
no thought experiments required, notice that one can see that he is a boxer using boxing...not something that looks like boxing,
or is changed due to its "fighting" and fighting looks like fighting, no commentary required or needed...


distance, timing, making them eat punches that either can knock out or knock down on the way in....
what ever one does it has to work in real time, all the time or most of the time....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iDlzL7zrNU
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Baguaquan strategy

Postby Yeung on Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:21 am

Here is the two person set performance competition in Pangration:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYOIhBDBU6o
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Re: Baguaquan strategy

Postby cloudz on Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:50 am

windwalker..

the same points stand... you can't choose the level of your opponents, you can't choose your environment - one where you have all the space you need. That your attackers are randoms untrained and don't know eachother and so on. Demos' can only replicate and real life scenarios can range from managable to no chance..

Yes it can work out ok, or it can work out very bad; for the attacked. One succesful encounter is meaningless in the big picture. Put up video of a thousand 1 vs. 3 and so on. Overwhelmingly the odds are in the favour of the multiple assailants. Things being equal - you have little to no chance of success. That's just being realistic about things, not cherry picking one or two succesful clips and pointing at them..
Last edited by cloudz on Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:54 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Baguaquan strategy

Postby windwalker on Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:17 am

cloudz wrote:windwalker..

the same points stand... you can't choose the level of your opponents, you can't choose your environment - one where you have all the space you need. That your attackers are randoms untrained and don't know eachother and so on. Demos' can only replicate and real life scenarios can range from managable to no chance..

Yes it can work out ok, or it can work out very bad; for the attacked. One succesful encounter is meaningless in the big picture. Put up video of a thousand 1 vs. 3 and so on. Overwhelmingly the odds are in the favour of the multiple assailants. Things being equal - you have little to no chance of success. That's just being realistic about things, not cherry picking one or two succesful clips and pointing at them..


You may have missed my over all point.

Regardless of the level, environment, manageable or not.

The clip shows someone who:

was aware and controlled the distance.
understood the meaning of timing and used it
knew how to move, keep and maintain his center, making the others lose theirs.

developed a skill that was repeatable, used as practiced.

All displayed in a random clip that happens to highlight that there other
options besides what is shown in the other clips.
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:30 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Baguaquan strategy

Postby cloudz on Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:50 am

I think most long time forum regulars have seen that clip possibly up to half a dozen times, so it is quite well known.
Your point just seems to be: train boxing. Which is great advice in whatever context it comes.

It won't be a silver bullit against multiples though, nothing is - that's my point.
If memory serves this was quite an accomplished boxer, anyone like that is going to look great fighting some randoms.

The clip shows someone who:

was aware and controlled the distance.
understood the meaning of timing and used it
knew how to move, keep and maintain his center, making the others lose theirs.


I think SDC displays all those qualities as well, he didn't though give himself a car park to run around in and back up into.
He also didn't get to hit those guys with realistic levels of force - if he had he probably would have dropped eachone pretty quickly I guess.

This really shouldn't be turned into some style v. style bullshit though. All martial arts need to expouse a large share of similar principles per context to acheive succesful outcomes. The main difference comes down to how people train and to what level.

I would be very surprised if people here are regularly turning up to Boxing gyms or are suddenly going to.
Last edited by cloudz on Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:31 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Baguaquan strategy

Postby AL2016 on Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:07 pm

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