the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

I've asked this question before, and I didn't quite find the answer I was looking for. My teacher is nearing the point to where I've learned the majority of what he was taught. My teachers learning was very good, with great teachers (Yu Hua Long being his main teacher). I love my Sifu to death, and he is quite literally someone I look up to much in the same way I do my own father (very close relationship). Now, I know that as of currently I've absorbed more then 80% of the system that we practice together (Yu Shi Xinyiliuhequan). I want to learn more Xinyiliuhequan, from someone in China who has dedicated a large portion of their life to learning it. The requirements I'm hoping in finding a teacher are below.

1. They allow someone to Baishi - I want to be part of a lineage
2. They have spent a large portion of their life learning the martial art (it's not second to them, it has been a large focus)
3. They teach foreigners

I might have some misunderstandings about Baishi, but from my understanding it's basically being adopted into the family, and the lineage? I would hope to train with the holder of Yu Hua Long's lineage, to continue what I've already learned. Though I am opened to different lineages; this would be preferred. I'm not traveling by myself. My wife and son will be traveling along. We (me and my wife) will be teaching locally (hopefully), to the area where the teacher will be located. I've tried to do some searching online, but I've yet to find anything in regards to this.

Let me know of any recommendations

Why not follow your teachers linage ? Don’t go in with the wish to Baishi, just study seriously and let things happen by them self.

just side note:
before you post anything look on the:
BOARD INDEX

1st

Some teachers are quick to allow baishi (e.g. after 1st meeting or after 1 month). It seems to have little relation to how much you learn, though...

Also, some teachers teach foreigners, but how much do they teach?

I am not so big on the "baishi" idea anymore - it's not my culture, and I am not sure if I could handle having another "father" now. Responsibilities also seem to differ greatly depending on the teacher - sometimes it is just a nice teacher-student relationship, other times it has a lot of baggage, too (e.g. living with them, giving them your house, etc.).

If you are looking to further your studies under Yu Hualong's lineage then I'm sure that is possible. Surely one of the main choices would be his son Yu Delin 于德麟, who seems to have taught in Canada?

Other than Yu Delin there are also disciples of Yu Hualong in Shanghai (Gu Jian 顾坚, Wang Qizhong王琪中) and in Xinyang in Henan (Chen Changhe 陈长河, Liu Rushi刘如世).

Scenario 1: No Baishi. Turn up & train. Go home and train. Study & analyse. Train to the point where you are able to eat and breath the methods & understand as good or better than anybody else. Everyone will know it in an instant.

Scenario 2: Baishi: Take lots of photos & do the ceremony. Maybe get some documents to support it. Learn a few forms & mimic what was taught. Be a so so student but have a paper.

Hopefully the xylh guys in China still respect energy, power and coordination attained from commitment and training far more than a piece paper and a few photos.

In my short trips to Shanghai I found that after introductions to a few they were more than happy to connect me with others.

dspyrido wrote:Scenario 1: No Baishi. Turn up & train. Go home and train. Study & analyse. Train to the point where you are able to eat and breath the methods & understand as good or better than anybody else. Everyone will know it in an instant.

Agreed. Far from all TCMA schools and lineages have this baishi thing. I don’t know what that title would bring to the plate. I’ve never studied with a teacher who had to or believed in this kind of ceremony. Some of them top notch teachers.

I concur with the others in that you should not pursue Baishi just for the sake of the Baishi. It means different things to different people. I have met many people, myself including, whose Shifu is like a father to them and taught them every aspect of the art without holding anything back. I have also met many masters that only cared about taking photos with foreigners or money. My Master studied Xinyiliuhequan in Shanghai and he told me that the current people in Shanghai don't really spar anymore. You'd probably be better off going to Henan. Zhang Binghai is in Zhengzhou. His skill is incredible and he started learning from when he was a young boy. Good luck to you.

MaartenSFS wrote:the current people in Shanghai don't really spar anymore.

It's very sad to see that people went to China to study CMA and then come home as a "form person". Why does anybody want to go to China to learn CMA? To be a good fighter, or to be a good form performer?

The Iron and Silk movie may bring CMA some bad reputation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOIbalP7dj8

It was well worth it for me. The things I learned in China are totally different than what I've seen anywhere else. Besides learning CMA I also enjoyed the culture, history, geography, food etc. Also found a wife.

johnwang wrote:

MaartenSFS wrote:the current people in Shanghai don't really spar anymore.

It's very sad to see that people went to China to study CMA and then come home as a "form person". Why does anybody want to go to China to learn CMA? To be a good fighter, or to be a good form performer?

The Iron and Silk movie may bring CMA some bad reputation.

I would say it depends on what kind of “forms” one learn ? And why go to China to just do sparring?......I liked the Iron and Silk book even more than the movie

Trick wrote:I would say it depends on what kind of “forms” one learn ? And why go to China to just do sparring?......

In Taiwan, when I was young, I wanted to learn

- SC master Chang Tung Sheng's "head lock".
- Baji master Liu Yuan-Chao's "tiger climb mountain".
- Zimen master Xiong Jian-Shun's "Dim Mak".
- Northern Shaolin master Kao Fen-Xian's "lighting skill".
- ...

IMO, you go to a foreign country to learn the "door guarding" skill from certain CMA masters. You don't just want to learn the forms from them.

EXACTLY. That's what my Master did. After the Grandmaster passed away he travelled around China and made friends with different masters until they taught him their best skills. I did the same, to a lesser extent. Now I don't train any forms. I may one day if my Master decides to create some, but I'm not holding my breath.

A lot of Shanghai Xinyi Liuhe people are incredibly shady. At least the ones I met.....

johnwang wrote:IMO, you go to a foreign country to learn the "door guarding" skill from certain CMA masters. You don't just want to learn the forms from them.

Or for other reasons. How about tourism? I went for business reasons and while I was there got to connect with people.

But why would people travel half way around the planet to spar? Maybe not everyone has it but I got myself MT/kick boxing, mma, some cmas, wrestling, bjj, karate, judo etc schools in nearly every suburb around me. Several places are run by friends of mine.

Plus the other problem (and fun part) is - you never know what you will find when meeting with these guys. Not everyone is out there promoting their secret closed door training methods.

On forms - I understand what you are saying - I wouldn't sit through 200+ sequence wushu, shaolin, tai chi or related. Maybe just video it for fun.
But xylh forms are not really forms - they are more bodyweight strengthening exercises. It's like knowing leg squats, pistols, squats jumps but over there you can learn another 5 variations of which they introduce a new and potentially useful element to power, technique or speed.

That said some of them also showed their applications of the forms which made it more interesting. Not everyone was useful but all where interesting.