Holding the Breath

[Brady]

Do you find holding the breath (aka bracing/valsalva) to be a useful technique either in a fight or in training? If so, in what situations do you find it useful? If not, why not?

I'm back and forth on this, but I'm pretty sure that I would never use bracing in free fighting or any task with the possibility of an unpredictable change in force.

[Palmer]

Do you find holding the breath (aka bracing/valsalva) to be a useful technique either in a fight or in training? If so, in what situations do you find it useful? If not, why not?

I'm back and forth on this, but I'm pretty sure that I would never use bracing in free fighting or any task with the possibility of an unpredictable change in force.

I knew a guy who was training southern praying manitis at a very traditional closed school in NYC chinatown. They taught him to practice their first form while holding his breath. I never knew why or understood this but always found it interesting.

Palmer

[Darthwing Teorist]

In Systema we hold the breath for certain training purposes only, such as increasing psychological discomfort to the border of panic. Go to your limit (square breathing, holding the breath during pushups, situps, squats) then recover. This is to teach recovery. We also use it to teach the importance of breathing (properly): doing stuff while holding the breath or breathing improperly quickly shows you the error of your ways.

And linked to the above, are certain drills, where let's say, you do 10 slow pushups holding the breath then someone attacks you and you have to bring them down in one smooth breath.

A more advance level is to use it along with inhaling and exhaling to induce a breathing pattern in your opponent at the moment of applying a technique to them. For example, punching someone right after you held you breath produces different results than punching them while inhaling or while exhaling. But, I'm not able to use this stuff in sparring yet.

[Brady]

I was hoping for a systema answer, thanks Teo.

I see your point in regards to increasing pyschological discomfort. I know, personally, that after years of wrestling and judo training I've built a certain ability to not freak out overly before being choked out. This was certainly not the case 6 years ago when I squirmed irrationally like a mofo.

I also like the idea of teaching recovery and working on developing the more anaerobic energy systems. (ATP-CP and glycolytic I think).

For example, punching someone right after you held you breath produces different results than punching them while inhaling or while exhaling.

This is what I'm trying to sort out, what do you see as the differences?

[Darthwing Teorist]

Basically the pain and the reaction of the body are different. It is hard to explain because it's mostly physical but it's practically getting punched while holding the breath, inhaling or exhaling (if you have someone that you trust, you can try this, at a reasonable level). It sucks. You induce into your opponent the same breathing pattern through whatever mechanism (I guess that it is like NLP, or mirror neurons).

Like I said, it is hard for me to reproduce this yet, even in our drills but it is worth the exploration both for fun value and for whatever edge you may get out of it over your opponent.

There are a lot of drills, that I may take for granted because I have seen them a lot in class. Holding the breath can be added to almost anything as long as you keep your goal in mind and do not let it become a habit. We had some more extreme training sessions, with bags over the head, but these are maybe not things that kids should know about because while they are very safe in class, they can kill someone doing them wrong and panicking. The idea is gradually doing stuff that is at your limit while pushing that very limit further and further.

[the.israeli]

I had some experience with western boxing. From what I know, boxers sometimes get into situations when they do hold their breath. A good example would be when both boxers throw a constant flurry of punches at each other without stopping and with less regard to defence. This would normally only occur for a few seconds, because of the strain on the body moving at such speeds with no oxygen. One of the craziest boxing fights ever, Hugler vs. Hearns, demonstrates this kind of situation perfectly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr1y37l2 ... re=related
(a great video to watch anyhow)

I was thinking about what one guy here told of the Mantis practitioners that was taught to do his first form while holding his breath. My guess is the aim was to improve his anaerobic capacity...

[Chris McKinley]

Stupid as hell, regardless of what physical activity you're engaged in. Triply so when your life is on the line.

[TaoBoxer]

Do you find holding the breath (aka bracing/valsalva) to be a useful technique either in a fight or in training? If so, in what situations do you find it useful? If not, why not?

I'm back and forth on this, but I'm pretty sure that I would never use bracing in free fighting or any task with the possibility of an unpredictable change in force.

I knew a guy who was training southern praying manitis at a very traditional closed school in NYC chinatown. They taught him to practice their first form while holding his breath. I never knew why or understood this but always found it interesting.

Palmer

You're right.... They do... But it's not just the first set.

Lewitt

[Doc Stier]

Ya gotta love a thread like this one.

Reminds me of the movie "Waiting To Exhale".

Doc

[klonk]

There are all sorts of theories about controlled breathing, in martial arts and also in qigong. I don't quite trust them. It seems to me that natural breathing, done correctly, answers every need.

I hear these stories every now and then, about someone passing out in a standing qigong, or a karate guy doing sanchin and having a stroke, that make me think breath control exercises have a downside. What, then, is the upside?

[Ian]

What's the difference between someone who can swim 50 meters underwater and someone who can't?

[klonk]

What's the difference between someone who can swim 50 meters underwater and someone who can't?

Aerobic conditioning. Merely that. You can't increase your anaerobic ability otherwise. Or am I wrong?

Edit: For clarity, what I am talking about is anaerobic endurance, which is what underwater swimming calls for.

[somatai]

concious control......working with breath retention is powerful, but presupposes a degree of sensitivity, awareness and control that like so many things in these practices, they should not be done until one is ready and when one is ready, they become obvious things to do and explore once shown,seen and discovered

[Peacedog]

xxxxxxxxxxxx

[Ian]

What's the difference between someone who can swim 50 meters underwater and someone who can't?

Aerobic conditioning. Merely that. You can't increase your anaerobic ability otherwise. Or am I wrong?

Edit: For clarity, what I am talking about is anaerobic endurance, which is what underwater swimming calls for.

That's one way of looking at it. How about mental control and toughness?