Shun Bu and Ao Bu

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Shun Bu and Ao Bu

Postby MaartenSFS on Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:46 pm

Image

Yet you post this, which is virtually identical to my Bengquan, even the power generation, it looks to be. The only difference is that my step is diagonally forward to the left and my left hand and arm kick of knock whatever they decide to throw out of the way, but my punch is still straight forward. You probably should have stopped posting after this. :P



This, however, is not the same thing and not nearly as powerful.
Last edited by MaartenSFS on Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Shun Bu and Ao Bu

Postby MaartenSFS on Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:04 pm

Here are two Shunbu Bengquan that look good. The power is a bit different than mine. Mine have a bit of Doujin.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjE4ODIyMTc2.html

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNzk3MTQxMDg=.html (In this one he starts to lose it towards the end)

This looks more like mine:

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzg4ODAwNDU4MA==.html
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Re: Shun Bu and Ao Bu

Postby marvin8 on Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:10 pm

MaartenSFS wrote:Uh... He talks about the Bengquan, but doesn't do one. I really don't understand how this contributes to your argument at all. I don't even like the little skip. It looks unbalanced. There should be no vertical movement.

No. The video's purpose was to give Yeung another "translation" for shun:
Yeung wrote:can members of this forum make some suggestion on the translations for Shun Bu 顺步 and Ao Bu 拗步.


MaartenSFS wrote:Image

Yet you post this, which is virtually identical to my Bengquan, even the power generation, it looks to be. The only difference is that my step is diagonally forward to the left and my left hand and arm kick of knock whatever they decide to throw out of the way, but my punch is still straight forward. You probably should have stopped posting after this. :P

It's not "Bengquan." Because, the front foot lands first, then the punch is completed..

Don't understand about "should have stopped posting." I did not nor was I addressing your post. I am not really interested in replying to people that only make statements/positions without any explanation. You may be reading more into my posts than there is.

Mine isn't as much an "argument" as here's what studies say about straight punch power. Open to opposing views. If you want to argue the studies, change the way MLB and NFL throws :) , feel welcome. But, rather hear explanations than just stating a position.

MaartenSFS wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AltIpYAwx8k

This, however, is not the same thing and not nearly as powerful.

It is the same in that, the foot lands first, then the strike is completed. I agree, not that powerful. The main point from that post is there are studies on CIMA and the kinetic chain from Taiwan.

MaartenSFS wrote:Here are two Shunbu Bengquan that look good. The power is a bit different than mine. Mine have a bit of Doujin.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjE4ODIyMTc2.html

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNzk3MTQxMDg=.html (In this one he starts to lose it towards the end)

This looks more like mine:

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzg4ODAwNDU4MA==.html

Yes, beng quan.

Boxing does both: land foot and punch at the same time and the kinetic chain. It just depends on the situation/goal (e.g., speed, power, etc.).
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Re: Shun Bu and Ao Bu

Postby Trick on Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:20 pm

MaartenSFS wrote:Here are two Shunbu Bengquan that look good. The power is a bit different than mine. Mine have a bit of Doujin.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjE4ODIyMTc2.html

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNzk3MTQxMDg=.html (In this one he starts to lose it towards the end)

This looks more like mine:

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzg4ODAwNDU4MA==.html

First and third, I think wouldn’t be able to use their BQ to any significant effect. The second guy’s BQ I like, not only because he does it in a similar (footwork)way as I sometimes do when I practice in my house. 8-)
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Re: Shun Bu and Ao Bu

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:07 am

That's really difficult to say.. It depends on whether they do any other training besides hitting air..
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Re: Shun Bu and Ao Bu

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:10 am

marvin8 wrote:
MaartenSFS wrote:Uh... He talks about the Bengquan, but doesn't do one. I really don't understand how this contributes to your argument at all. I don't even like the little skip. It looks unbalanced. There should be no vertical movement.

No. The video's purpose was to give Yeung another "translation" for shun:
Yeung wrote:can members of this forum make some suggestion on the translations for Shun Bu 顺步 and Ao Bu 拗步.


MaartenSFS wrote:Image

Yet you post this, which is virtually identical to my Bengquan, even the power generation, it looks to be. The only difference is that my step is diagonally forward to the left and my left hand and arm kick of knock whatever they decide to throw out of the way, but my punch is still straight forward. You probably should have stopped posting after this. :P

It's not "Bengquan." Because, the front foot lands first, then the punch is completed..

Don't understand about "should have stopped posting." I did not nor was I addressing your post. I am not really interested in replying to people that only make statements/positions without any explanation. You may be reading more into my posts than there is.

Mine isn't as much an "argument" as here's what studies say about straight punch power. Open to opposing views. If you want to argue the studies, change the way MLB and NFL throws :) , feel welcome. But, rather hear explanations than just stating a position.

MaartenSFS wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AltIpYAwx8k

This, however, is not the same thing and not nearly as powerful.

It is the same in that, the foot lands first, then the strike is completed. I agree, not that powerful. The main point from that post is there are studies on CIMA and the kinetic chain from Taiwan.

MaartenSFS wrote:Here are two Shunbu Bengquan that look good. The power is a bit different than mine. Mine have a bit of Doujin.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjE4ODIyMTc2.html

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNzk3MTQxMDg=.html (In this one he starts to lose it towards the end)

This looks more like mine:

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzg4ODAwNDU4MA==.html

Yes, beng quan.

Boxing does both: land foot and punch at the same time and the kinetic chain. It just depends on the situation/goal (e.g., speed, power, etc.).

There are many variations to Bengquan with different footwork and other details. Each master has their own style.
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Re: Shun Bu and Ao Bu

Postby marvin8 on Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:11 am

MaartenSFS wrote:
marvin8 wrote:
MaartenSFS wrote:Uh... He talks about the Bengquan, but doesn't do one. I really don't understand how this contributes to your argument at all. I don't even like the little skip. It looks unbalanced. There should be no vertical movement.

No. The video's purpose was to give Yeung another "translation" for shun:
Yeung wrote:can members of this forum make some suggestion on the translations for Shun Bu 顺步 and Ao Bu 拗步.


MaartenSFS wrote:Image

Yet you post this, which is virtually identical to my Bengquan, even the power generation, it looks to be. The only difference is that my step is diagonally forward to the left and my left hand and arm kick of knock whatever they decide to throw out of the way, but my punch is still straight forward. You probably should have stopped posting after this. :P

It's not "Bengquan." Because, the front foot lands first, then the punch is completed..

Don't understand about "should have stopped posting." I did not nor was I addressing your post. I am not really interested in replying to people that only make statements/positions without any explanation. You may be reading more into my posts than there is.

Mine isn't as much an "argument" as here's what studies say about straight punch power. Open to opposing views. If you want to argue the studies, change the way MLB and NFL throws :) , feel welcome. But, rather hear explanations than just stating a position.

MaartenSFS wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AltIpYAwx8k

This, however, is not the same thing and not nearly as powerful.

It is the same in that, the foot lands first, then the strike is completed. I agree, not that powerful. The main point from that post is there are studies on CIMA and the kinetic chain from Taiwan.

MaartenSFS wrote:Here are two Shunbu Bengquan that look good. The power is a bit different than mine. Mine have a bit of Doujin.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjE4ODIyMTc2.html

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNzk3MTQxMDg=.html (In this one he starts to lose it towards the end)

This looks more like mine:

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzg4ODAwNDU4MA==.html

Yes, beng quan.

Boxing does both: land foot and punch at the same time and the kinetic chain. It just depends on the situation/goal (e.g., speed, power, etc.).

There are many variations to Bengquan with different footwork and other details. Each master has their own style.

Well, the OP topic is "half step crashing fist of Guo Yun Shen."

Can you show another "variation/style" of Benquan where the foot and hand does not arrive at the same time?

You said your Bengquan is "virtually identical" to Tyson's,"even to the power generation."
marvin8 wrote:
MaartenSFS wrote:Image

Yet you post this, which is virtually identical to my Bengquan, even the power generation, it looks to be. The only difference is that my step is diagonally forward to the left and my left hand and arm kick of knock whatever they decide to throw out of the way, but my punch is still straight forward. You probably should have stopped posting after this. :P

It's not "Bengquan." Because, the front foot lands first, then the punch is completed.


Yet, your video that you say is "like mine" shows Bengquan with foot and hand arriving at the same time:
MaartenSFS wrote:Here are two Shunbu Bengquan that look good. The power is a bit different than mine. Mine have a bit of Doujin.

. . . This looks more like mine:

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzg4ODAwNDU4MA==.html
Last edited by marvin8 on Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shun Bu and Ao Bu

Postby Trick on Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:39 am

MaartenSFS wrote:That's really difficult to say.. It depends on whether they do any other training besides hitting air..

Cannonball Richard wouldn’t even flinch 8-)
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Re: Shun Bu and Ao Bu

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:14 pm

I explained it fairly well. The angle is more like the latter video and the power looks like when I punch in the air. The footwork for Tyson's punch is the same as mine, except for the angle and the power appears to be the same or quite similar. I have met some Xingyi masters that have a crazy Doujin going on that I cancan't even begin to explain. Same with XYLHQ.
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Re: Shun Bu and Ao Bu

Postby marvin8 on Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:58 pm

MaartenSFS wrote:I explained it fairly well. The angle is more like the latter video and the power looks like when I punch in the air. The footwork for Tyson's punch is the same as mine, except for the angle and the power appears to be the same or quite similar. I have met some Xingyi masters that have a crazy Doujin going on that I cancan't even begin to explain. Same with XYLHQ.

You did not explain the footwork well. In your bengquan, does your foot and hand arrive at the same time, as in your posted "This looks more like mine" video?

MaartenSFS wrote:Here are two Shunbu Bengquan that look good. The power is a bit different than mine. Mine have a bit of Doujin.

. . . This looks more like mine:

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzg4ODAwNDU4MA==.html
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Re: Shun Bu and Ao Bu

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:19 pm

My punch arrives at its destination just as my rear foot advances (after my left foot already landed), regardless of whether I strike with my lead or rear fist. When it's my lead fist I also pivot my front foot back and forth a little as my waist turns to add power, which happens between when my left foot lands and my right foot advances.
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Re: Shun Bu and Ao Bu

Postby marvin8 on Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:38 pm

MaartenSFS wrote:My punch arrives at its destination just as my rear foot advances (after my left foot already landed), regardless of whether I strike with my lead or rear fist. When it's my lead fist I also pivot my front foot back and forth a little as my waist turns to add power, which happens between when my left foot lands and my right foot advances.

Is your beng quan like this: "front foot already landed, then punch arrives?" (You might slow down the speed.)

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Published on Jun 20, 2009

Slightly mellow version of the Five Elements - Beng Quan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYkocZCvucw
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Re: Shun Bu and Ao Bu

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:57 pm

The footwork is similar to that, but at an angle (with the body turned), but the punch comes from the hip and moves straight ahead, towards the target, and is performed with the rear hand. When done with the lead hand the target is the head and there is a lot more rapid horizontal movement at the waist, plus that pivot, creating more Doujin. I call this punch Chuanquan. It's also extended out further towards the target, more like a really powerful jab. Bengquan is my strongest punch, with deep, penetrating power and Chuanquan is my fastest and most dangerous, with a whiplash like effect.
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