Just the circle ⭕️

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Just the circle ⭕️

Postby robert on Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:15 pm

It's been a long time since I've done bagua, but if I remember in Liang style we had 13 essentials. Sun lists 9 in his manual on Brennan Translations.

The nine requirements are: 1. sinking, 2. hollowing, 3. lifting, 4. pressing, 5. wrapping, 6. loosening, 7. hanging, 8. shrinking, 9. clearly distinguishing between lifting, drilling, dropping, and overturning.
“Sinking” means your waist has an energy of sinking down, the principle of your tailbone lifting and activating your Du meridian.
“Hollowing” means opening your chest [inwardly] to smooth your energy, the principle of passive energy descending along your Ren meridian.
“Lifting” means to lift your rectum inward.
“Pressing” means your tongue touches your upper palate, your head presses up, and your hands press up.
“Wrapping” means your elbows have an energy of wrapping inward. If your hands are propping something up, palms facing upward, there has to be such an energy of wrapping inward.
“Loosening” means loosening your shoulders as when drawing a bow, keeping your elbows from poking outward.
“Hanging” means that when your hands twist outward, your elbows have a strong energy of hanging down.
“Shrinking” means your shoulders and hips have a strong energy of shrinking in.
As for “lifting, drilling, dropping, and overturning”: lifting is drilling and dropping is overturning. Lifting is horizontal and dropping is vertical. Lifting and drilling are threading. Dropping and overturning are striking. But when lifting is also striking, dropping is still striking. Strike with lifting and dropping, like the wheels of machinery spinning continuously.
...
Although the arts of Xingyi and Bagua are divided into associations with the square circle and round circle, their theory is simply to restrain your power while moving, causing your energy to consolidate and return to your elixir field. Great sages by such means possessed discipline and sincerity, both of which are closely linked to the way of boxing arts. Great heroes trained both wisdom and courage. You likewise must begin by understanding the mathematical concept [of the trigrams]. Great artists broadened their understanding by deeply studying things. You likewise must begin by understanding the function of intention, energy, and power.
Even though the postures of both arts are different, their principles are the same. While practicing these arts, understand these principles. Use your elixir field as the basis, take intention, energy, and power to be the function, and let the nine requirements be the standard. If you practice according to these principles, then even if you do not achieve mastery, you will nevertheless not be far from it.


And, of course, there are eight mother palms, eight postures, used in walking the circle - here are four.

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Millstone Pushing

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Try not to let the words confuse you — they serve no other purpose than to guide you into the inner structures of Taiji. Chen Xin
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Re: Just the circle ⭕️

Postby Yeung on Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:58 pm

Wanderingdragon wrote:Help, in walking the circle, what is most important?


The most important in Baguaquan is not to walk a circle, but walking a octagon. One can walk a circle by taking a smaller step with the inside leg; while a octagon one needs to make a 45 degree turn in every two steps. It makes one relaxes the hip joints to rotate in various directions in later training.
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Re: Just the circle ⭕️

Postby D_Glenn on Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:17 am

That’s a good point. And another way to emphasize stepping straight/ scissors leg stepping.
Circle walking is called Zhuan Zhang (Turning Palms), and the turning means turning a corner to walk in a different direction. In an octagon the angle of the turn is small. But if you’re walking on a square then the angle of the turning is 90 degrees. The smallest is the triangle stepping where the center of the circle is your inside shoulder. It takes a lot of practice and conditioning to reach the point where you can easily turn the 3 step circle.
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Re: Just the circle ⭕️

Postby suckinlhbf on Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:59 am

WD, Wu's wooden ball teaching also includes walk around the tilted table on various wooden ball moves.
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Re: Just the circle ⭕️

Postby Wanderingdragon on Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:06 am

Interesting, at this point I am playing chasing ball around the table seeking to control it without allowing the palm to ever play.
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Re: Just the circle ⭕️

Postby suckinlhbf on Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:03 pm

One ball or two balls? The ball should be made of hardwood so it is slippery enough.
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Re: Just the circle ⭕️

Postby Yeung on Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:47 pm

D_Glenn wrote:That’s a good point. And another way to emphasize stepping straight/ scissors leg stepping.
Circle walking is called Zhuan Zhang (Turning Palms), and the turning means turning a corner to walk in a different direction. In an octagon the angle of the turn is small. But if you’re walking on a square then the angle of the turning is 90 degrees. The smallest is the triangle stepping where the center of the circle is your inside shoulder. It takes a lot of practice and conditioning to reach the point where you can easily turn the 3 step circle.

There is also the Xuan Zhang 旋掌(spinning palm) and this can be develop as practitioners turn as they step.
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Re: Just the circle ⭕️

Postby edededed on Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:18 pm

Enjoying the practice? :D

Each branch seems to emphasize different things... but as the walking trains many things, perhaps it is okay!
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Re: Just the circle ⭕️

Postby windwalker on Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:38 am

Last edited by windwalker on Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Just the circle ⭕️

Postby Yeung on Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:07 am

The Fundamentals of Pa Kua Chang: The Methods of Lu Shui-Tien 盧水田 As Taught by Park Bok Nam
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Re: Just the circle ⭕️

Postby Yeung on Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:13 am

The Pa Kua Chang Journal is a periodical written and edited by Dan Miller over the course of several years. It contains over a thousand pages of great information about this internal martial art, sometimes called baguazhang.

It is interesting to note that Dan Miller learned Baguazhang from Park bok Nan, and it was sad that the Pa Kua Chang came to a close but still available for sale.
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Re: Just the circle ⭕️

Postby windwalker on Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:36 pm

The journal used to be offered in PDF a couple of different sites for free,but it's now been monetized for a small fee. Lots of good historical info.

The clips posted reminded me very much of the training we did in plumflower mantis, in Korea.

The training shown in the clips greaed towards usage. What is practiced is used, and practiced until it is so.

Was hoping that some of the bagua practitioner would comment pointing out what they've posted on being shown in use in the clips.

In usage.
Last edited by windwalker on Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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