Wei Lei (taiji guy) lost again

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Wei Lei (taiji guy) lost again

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:37 pm

I have to agree about Jake Mace (Bet that's not even his real name). The comments under his videos are hilarious. People actually believe that that is actual Gongfu.. PATHETIC.
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Re: Wei Lei (taiji guy) lost again

Postby windwalker on Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:46 pm

MaartenSFS wrote:I have to agree about Jake Mace (Bet that's not even his real name). The comments under his videos are hilarious. People actually believe that that is actual Gongfu.. PATHETIC.


And paying for allowing him to make a living think about it. It's called free market, capitalism.


Not judging what he does, or did.
he believed in what he was doing had a passion for and was somewhat successful.

Used to judge tournaments in the south eastern US. people would come in demo what they said was Chinese martial arts, in many cases clearly they were not..

In one tournament a friend of mine a wushu coach from China, lost in a spear demo by judges who clearly did not understand or know what they were judging.

It was funny and also sad.

Why not look at it from the point of view that someone that many here say has no skill , was successful as an example for someone with skill like yourself could also be successful.
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Re: Wei Lei (taiji guy) lost again

Postby Strange on Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:10 pm

windwalker wrote:Why post a video and not translate anything that was said.


sound like tone of moderator; maybe you can consider to apply to be one
i think you can do a good job
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Re: Wei Lei (taiji guy) lost again

Postby Trick on Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:31 pm

klonk wrote:
marvin8 wrote:Here is the actual fight:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-RW9dcsWro


Wei has the cotton but not the steel. It's not his fault. Even in China, lots of people suppose that is how it works.

If I remember right this WeiLei practice in the tradition/linage of Li Yaxuan. But the little practice vids I see of Wei his Taijiquan seem very much home brewed. Not saying he would have fared better as an pugilist if he had practiced Taiji in a real linage. Of course maybe it’s because he’s not linked to a specific linage he is “able” to step up and trying it out ? 8-)
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Re: Wei Lei (taiji guy) lost again

Postby windwalker on Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:52 pm

Strange wrote:
windwalker wrote:Why post a video and not translate anything that was said.


sound like tone of moderator; maybe you can consider to apply to be one
i think you can do a good job


For native speakers those I talk with, things that are questioned here
demoed or shown in clips are very understandably provided one can understand whats being said.
Or maybe plausible might be a better word choice.

I hope those who are native speakers can share some insights with with those
who are not on something we all share a passion for....

regards.
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Re: Wei Lei (taiji guy) lost again

Postby Strange on Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:05 am

i you can understand, you understand
if you cannot understand, you cannot understand
problems happen, like what happen to Wei Lei, is because of he told himself
he understand, when in fact he does not. And he went further to make a show
to convince others, so that the reaction of others can further deceive more persons
and also reenforce his own delusion. In effect, making taiji into a magic show.

But one must understand that when one tell enough lies, all the lies amalgamate
into a creature with a life of its own. then one cannot control it anymore; it is
the creature that is in control. what the creature can do, no one can say for sure.

But one thing is certain: one day it will meet reality and the creature and the one
it controls will crumble.

this is the translation of the vid i posted
cheers
天官指星 单对月 风摆荷叶 影成双

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Re: Wei Lei (taiji guy) lost again

Postby Trick on Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:10 am

Apocalyptical………
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Re: Wei Lei (taiji guy) lost again

Postby windwalker on Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:04 am

Strange wrote:this is the translation of the vid i posted
cheers


Is it,,,

Seems to be a different translation...then what I was told..

I guess it depends on the translator, translating or
explaining a viewpoint of what was said..
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Re: Wei Lei (taiji guy) lost again

Postby marvin8 on Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:47 am

windwalker wrote:
Strange wrote:


Why post a video and not translate anything that was said.

"Taijji has been changed since the time of its invention to reflect more of an exercise program rather than martial arts even though it's being billed as martial arts."

A friend translated some of what he talked about. Other native speakers might offer a more in depth synopsis.

Fight Commentary Breakdowns
Published on Nov 4, 2018

Wei Lei, aka Lei Lei, aka Lei Gong, recently showed a very poor performance in a fight against a Kung Fu master. Lei Lei went three rounds and lost very badly. He spoke out about what he learned from it and his changed stance on the usefulness of Tai Chi. Listen to him reflect on himself, the art of Tai Chi, and what he is now. Hope you enjoy the translation and the subsequent exploration of Lei Lei's Weibo (Chinese version of Twitter). Leave your comments below on if you agree with me that Lei Lei is going to fight again! Talk to you all in the comments!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB1DHVZj7F4

Doris Lee
Published on Nov 11, 2018

Another great teacher fell on the ring:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBQsHwU-zKI

Fight Commentary Breakdowns
Published on Nov 12, 2018

In this most recent TMA vs MMA faceoff, a Tai Chi practitioner (not Lei Lei this time) takes on a Mixed Martial Artist in the ring. Let's see what happens to this Shifu Zhong. Are the results what you expected? Please leave a comment on what you think of the whole TMA vs MMA debate and where you think Chinese martial arts is in the modern world! Looking forward to your comments!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7ZScxup6LY
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Re: Wei Lei (taiji guy) lost again

Postby windwalker on Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:06 am

marvin8 wrote:
He spoke out about what he learned from it and his changed stance on the usefulness of Tai Chi. Listen to him reflect on himself, the art of Tai Chi, and what he is now. Hope you enjoy the translation and the subsequent exploration of Lei Lei's Weibo (Chinese version of Twitter).


Thanks, aligns with what my friend a native speaker mentioned, although he pharphased it
it a little differently.

Kind of puts him in a different light....this was his translation

"Taijji has been changed since the time of its invention to reflect more of an exercise program rather than martial arts even though it's being billed as martial arts."
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Re: Wei Lei (taiji guy) lost again

Postby Peacedog on Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:44 am

Good for him.

It mirrors my moment of Zen involving martial arts. Short version, I got into a friendly match with a retired Dominican boxer. He was about ten years out of his prime and I out weighed him by 20 pounds. He beat me like a little kid. He was so fast I didn't even see the first punch that hit me. It lasted two rounds. He didn't knock me out, but honestly that was because he was being nice about it.

That was when I switched over to more of the meditative/yogic end.
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Re: Wei Lei (taiji guy) lost again

Postby oragami_itto on Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:08 am

windwalker wrote:
"Taijji has been changed since the time of its invention to reflect more of an exercise program rather than martial arts even though it's being billed as martial arts."


Like I've been saying, this guy doesn't even believe in the validity of taijiquan as a martial art. He's not looking to his taijiquan for answers to the problem of combat. He's not the savior that's going to redeem IMA in the eyes of the world.
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Re: Wei Lei (taiji guy) lost again

Postby windwalker on Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:42 pm

oragami_itto wrote:
windwalker wrote:
"Taijji has been changed since the time of its invention to reflect more of an exercise program rather than martial arts even though it's being billed as martial arts."


Like I've been saying, this guy doesn't even believe in the validity of taijiquan as a martial art. He's not looking to his taijiquan for answers to the problem of combat. He's not the savior that's going to redeem IMA in the eyes of the world.


Your quotation makes it look like I wrote that, instead of quoting a translation that a friend offered of what was being said.


Not assigning, or attributing any motive for what he's doing or did.


He is somebody who lost a match with something that he believed in at one time in a very public way.

He lost again after he modified what he did. Happens.
He is coming to understand what he's lookinging for and developing a methodology for achieving it.

His introspection is one that might be shared by others. It's part of his path his journey that he's public about.
It's what he found whether one agrees with it or not.

On this site there is a constant stream of Tai chi fails. Showing something not working that many claim to practice. One would think it would be the opposite that clips shown would be of those who are successfully using the art.

Instead what is offered as competency, are clips of movement, push Hands, or those showing as I sometimes post unique skill sets demoed in a specific context.

There are no clips offered showing of people successfully using it in competitive environments recognizable as such.

Of those that say they do use taiji in competitive environment there is no discernible skill or movement that one could see differentiating it from someone who does not practice taiji.

Note, that in most of the clips of the fails they all tend to fail in the same way. Might make a good discussion as to what and why.
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Wei Lei (taiji guy) lost again

Postby oragami_itto on Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:28 pm

windwalker wrote:Instead what is offered as competency, are clips of movement, push Hands, or those showing as I sometimes post unique skill sets demoed in a specific context.

There are no clips offered showing of people successfully using it in competitive environments recognizable as such.


All competitive environments are a specific context.

I can't speak for anybody else, but I know that the more I've learned and developed in my taijiquan the less interested I am in performing or competing publicly. Competition of any type, push hands or MMA or whatever, to test and prove it works (or that I am good enough) has become less important. I meet with people, some are better, some are worse, some want to throw punches and move around, others want to stand still and wrestle, others like push hands. It's all approached in the spirit of learning, not domination and submission and hurting. Great care is taken to avoid damage. Video is rare and for personal use.

And that's fine, you know? It's good. I get a lot out of the practice, solo and with partners and maybe one day I'll decide I'm good enough to teach a few people what little I know to keep at least that bit of knowledge alive.

None of that's got anything to do with the hero's journey of a known fraud who came to believe his own bullshit and abandoned taijiquan the first time he got his ass handed to him. His failure, and the failure of whatever other people we may find on video, do not one thing to diminish the value of my practice or my faith in the efficacy of the methods and techniques that comprise it. It's always been there when I need it, in and outside of friendly exchanges. I'll note that it does not involve rotting watermelons with chi power.

Which is all to say that from my perspective, taijiquan doesn't need to be saved, but if it did, again, Wei Lei ain't the one to do it. If anything, everything he's done has accomplished the exact opposite.
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Re: Wei Lei (taiji guy) lost again

Postby windwalker on Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:31 pm

Peacedog wrote:Good for him.

It mirrors my moment of Zen involving martial arts. Short version, I got into a friendly match with a retired Dominican boxer. He was about ten years out of his prime and I out weighed him by 20 pounds. He beat me like a little kid. He was so fast I didn't even see the first punch that hit me. It lasted two rounds. He didn't knock me out, but honestly that was because he was being nice about it.

That was when I switched over to more of the meditative/yogic end.



The art of boxing has a purity, clarity, that is easily observable and felt by those who either practice it or encounter it. Those watching or don't practice it on encountering it, they often have a Zen moment or as others might say, come to Jesus moment.

As a young teenager in the military, used to test my long arm against people who said they boxed, or did box at one time non professionally, although there were people in the army training for what were called, boxing smokers.

My own Awakening came thinking I could box trying to box someone and getting hit in such a way that told me I knew nothing about boxing.

I did know about long arm, footwork, distance, timing and positioning.

With most of those I encountered after that who said they boxed, my answer was long arm, combined with its rather unique footwork that made it work.
We would agree that I would not kick them.
Worked out well for both allowing the testing of things without getting damaged too much in the process. :P
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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